Feminist pub XIX: The Bluestocking meanders into May

[YonicScrewdriver]

We're running at about six weeks per pub at the moment! So if you want chat with a feminist flavour, or with fellow feminists, or just want to admire our patriarchy blaster cannon and goat - welcome!

Last pub Here

Hello - I've not been in for a while. Can I have a G&T whilst I attempt to catch up?

The dirk books are on my must re-read books. I should spend less time on MN and more reading!

Only recently got to the end of delusions of gender - so what's next on the FWR must-read list?

Yes Yonic, it made me shudder a bit.

Errol - Delusion of gender is the only book on the FWR-list (if there is such a thing but hopefully you know what I mean) that I've read. I've also read most of The Subjection of Women. There you have a man arguing for women's rights which is pretty fun. (Though I think it's supposed to be a collaboration with his wife.) I also read "Why so slow" about progress of women in science. That is also quite interesting but I can't remember most of it... >

I haven't read the dirk books. I only watch the tv series sporadically.

My tv viewings are limited to the Avengers and NCIS now that Jonathan Strange is finished. May branch out to Miss Marple at some point.

The Equality Illusion should be on the FWR reading list too, I read it because it was recommended on here. Author is Kat Banyard I think (cba to go upstairs and check, too humid to move).

It occurs to me that FWR isn't the only place round here that has quite a reputation. I'm considering posting in Relationships for advice for a family member whose ex is playing silly buggers re their daughter. But the family member is male, and I'm not sure I fancy reading a whole heap of posts assuming he's the baddy in their particular situation. If he were the woman I'd have sent him here myself. As it is, it perhaps wouldn't be that helpful. Will have to ponder that one.

Thanks for that recommendation, Brid.

I don't often go into 'relationships', but you do hear rumours of its biases. This is supposed to be a site 'by parents, for parents' - and that surely should include fathers like your relative on an equal basis.

In an ideal world all parents would be able to get good advice here, yes. But as we're in a far from ideal world, it's a bit more difficult. The bias is there because so often it is the man being dickish about things, because under patriarchy they're taught to be dickish. And if patriarchy teaches men to be dickish, then there's a good chance they will be at fault in any given R'ships post. And it is very refreshing over there the way women tend to be believed rather than asked what they've done to deserve dickish treatment. With the world being as it is, making R'ships more man-friendly would probably make it less woman-friendly, and that doesn't sound a fair trade to me.

Oh, don't worry, I already give him plenty of Feminist Relationship Advice! And he tends to do alright on that one anyway. It really is one of those situations where the man isn't at fault though. In brief, when they were together he ended up in the 'wife' role, going part time, kid at nursery when he was at work, did the vast majority of the housework, house admin, and so on. They agreed when they split that he'd get the tax credits as his income was so much lower than hers. All fine and dandy until her bipolar flares up and her standards of rational thought veer quite dramatically. And when she's in that mental state, no amount of Feminist Relationship Advice is going to help him. Advice on what to do when the other parent puts in a claim for the tax credits that you can't keep a roof over your head without would be more useful.

Anyway, she's agreed to drop her claim so he's okay for now. It just saddens me a little that I can't tell him, "Here's this excellent resource with very helpful and knowledgeable people; go ask them for advice," just because he's a bloke.

because under patriarchy they're taught to be dickish.

Yep, trudat. My childhood was one where any type of resistance was met with violence from parent/step parent. I'm not complaining, other than those 2 people I can look back and it was mostly happy. But they made me determined to not become a dad if that was how it was. It wasn't until I was in my early 20s when I met a young woman, met her family and realised that my experience growing up wasn't normal. When we became parents I was terrified I'd turn into my dad and use violence and bullying to get my way, but I'm happy to say I didn't.

It just saddens me a little that I can't tell him, "Here's this excellent resource with very helpful and knowledgeable people; go ask them for advice," just because he's a bloke.

I got directed here by a then girlfriend who sent me a link to a contentious thread in which the OP contended that single men who go swimming during the day are paedophiles. I registered to have my say but it got pulled before I got the chance. My point is, tell him about MN, that it's used by parents of both sexes despite the name and that if he chooses to use this wonderful site the chances are he'll get support. Just tell him not to post for advice in Dadsnet as it will disappear into the tumbleweed. :o

I will point him in this direction when we reach the next episode of silly buggers. And as a R'ships aside, lurking there has obviously skewed my perspective: just found out one of the neighbours woke up to a deceased girlfriend this morning, and my first thought is hmm, they were bloody shouty, I wonder if he...?

Actually, Stormy, I might think that as well, based more on the course I did on domestic violence. Even if there was a medical condition, it is really unlikely to just wake up to a person having died. It may be that they're not sharing details, but passing away peacefully in their sleep is a bit of a myth. The only relative I know who did that died of cancer and had a shit load of drugs keeping them peaceful.

In other news, I was looking at the Wimbledon coverage in the Telegraph, and they have shown the women and men in almost identical photos, and used almost exactly the same language about both of them. Both have very assertive/aggressive verbs used to describe the action, and not one comment about women being girls or complaints about how much they grunted or anything.

Yy Innocent, that was great. The best bit for me was that the woman had, according to the judge, 'proved her case'. Excellent news, an abuse survivor being believed is a glorious and unexpected thing.

Apparently she had a dodgy heart, but she can't have been older than thirties. There was a police car outside when I got back from the nursery run. Not wishing to sound like a dreadful gossip (and it's not like any of you know these people anyway), but he doesn't half set my internal alarms ringing. Can't put my finger on why.

Anyway. Well done to the Telegraph! Makes a nice change.

Oooh, JK Rowling on Twitter! Some random made a comment about Serena Williams being built like a man. JKR did a snippy .@ response calling him on it and now he is getting his arse handed to him by some of her 5 million followers. I love her.

I saw that.

Serena Williams looks like a woman who is a sportsperson at the top of her game. Aren't people weird?

Hello all. Mine's a very large gin as i haven't been by in about 4 months!

But had to jump in to join the Serena chat. 5 minutes of googling this morning had me absolutely horrified at what she has to fight against, not just as a woman but as a black woman. I read somewhere that her total earnings are about half of what Sharapova's have been - she clearly can't get the big endorsements etc. As for all the comments about her from twatty misogynist men, it's truly frightening.

I'm very aware of sexism on a day to day basis, but in a sport like this with a player like her... how is it possible that this is kind of talk is still so widely accepted?

I think Serena is an incredibly talented tennis player. She also interviews well, appears intelligent and humble and always seems to respect her opponent. I don't get the love for Sharapova, I don't think she's anywhere near as good as Serena.

Well here's another proof that the gender gap is still going strong. The Bbc have an article on gender pay gap, and of course many of the highest rated comments are saying it doen't exist. There are a few comments pointing out that women still do unrewarded childcare which is a problem - and a few suggesting that that's all the problem and how dare women have kids, a few nastier lies, the usual crap. And what stood out more than anything else was the number proclaiming that men do all the dirty heavy lifting and therefore should be getting more pay. Even if it were true, it shows how the only thing these men value is their physical strength, as if that was in any way relevant or important to most jobs nowadays in the age of machines.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33515629?comments

They're just so desperate to claim male superiority over women that they will fall back on their muscles. That's how it struck me anyway.

And I suppose in all those professions where nobody needs muscular power women would be paid an equal pay.

Hello. Just wanted to pop my head in.

Just had to listen to MIL explain to me the difference between boys and girls instalment no 847. I need a lie down and a large g&t. Not necessarily in that order.

Is there any point engaging with that sort of very ingrained opinion? I don't usually but i'm about to move in with the ILs until our new house is ready so i'm going to hear so much more of it. Think i might just smile and nod...and smile and nod....