Feminist pub XIX: The Bluestocking meanders into May

[YonicScrewdriver]

We're running at about six weeks per pub at the moment! So if you want chat with a feminist flavour, or with fellow feminists, or just want to admire our patriarchy blaster cannon and goat - welcome!

Last pub Here

I do use "one". It irritates some people, I think. A bit pompous. But I like it because I sometimes do want to be pompous. Different words to irritate different people.

Judy Murray on quotas

m.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/32890508

I always thought of 'one' as an alternative to using I/we in formal prose (so, rather than "I argue", "one might argue"), rather than a generic gender-neutral pronoun, though...

A series of sci-fi novels I read as a teenager had a hermaphroditic species which used "s/he" and "hir", which I quite liked as a potential gender 'neutral' / both-gender pronoun.

That's a really interesting article, Yonic! I feel ashamed to say that I had only a foggy impression of Judy Murray's own tennis achievements until I read that.

IME women in IT are more likely to be pushed towards project management than say, solution architecture. I don't think asking for a 50/50 shortlist for project management is unreasonable.

How much say do you have in this Sweet? Am assuming that if you have a resourcing team that it's a bit of an uphill struggle to insist on hiring competent people (or am I just bitter from previous corporate experiences of dealing with recruiters I couldn't fire?)

I actually think "she" as default is massively powerful. Perhaps most so once you get far enough in to start taking it for granted, and then notice it again. I think that in a context of assuming male, sometimes you need a temporary reset to actually start really seeing female as an option. (I've taken a few men along to women in IT events. It's interesting to see them struggle with being the minority in the room, and then at some point the penny drops that this feeling is the norm for the women they work with.)

In terms of science fiction recommendations, my feminist male former boss recommended "Ancillary Justice", which is set in a science fictional universe where the main culture, the Radch, don't distinguish by gender and default to "she" for everyone.

Given that women are slightly over 50% of the population, an unknown person is slightly more likely to be female than male so she is actually logical. All this he stuff is just emotional and illogical really.

slightly I have a reasonable amount of say. It's a contract role, which makes it easier (no dealing with HR!) and if the recruitment team can't find the right person I'm allowed to go out to agencies.

It was the brush off that annoyed me most. I was very tempted to deliver a mini lecture on how I was attempting to correct his unconscious bias!

I like the idea of "one" but I think there are sentences where it wouldn't replace him/her or he/she? I've always understood it to be used when you're talking about yourself in the third person? I do like the idea of just using she / her but I always bottle it at the last minute and say him or her/ he or she. Maybe I could try putting her/she first as a step in the right direction

IME women in IT are more likely to be pushed towards project management than say, solution architecture.

This. Fifteen years in the industry and people still try to push me into project management, which I intensely dislike and would thus be probably rubbish at.

May I take refuge in here? I know it isn't good form to talk about other threads on here, but the one about women taking a long time in toilets has really struck a nerve. There seems to be an undercurrent of 'those women who take longer than I do are a bit shit' which I actually find a bit misogynistic given the reasons why women might take longer. Of course, I may be oversensitive as a woman who takes more time. I just thought I might find a bit more sympathy here.

You are welcome, Steady!

I am sorry to learn that Nadine Dorries was abused as a child:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33044002

I hid that thread steady as I found the first page uncomfortable reading. Like there was a certain smugness about being in and out in ten seconds. I've stood in plenty of bathroom queues and it's genuinely never entered my head to wonder or complain what anyone was doing in their cubicle. It's none of my business.

I always thought "one" was used when talking about yourself, instead of "I". I love the pompous sound of it.

There was a recent advert, Johnson's I think, where a baby is having a bath, and they used female pronouns. We were at my Mums and quite a few people commented on it sounding odd. That you don't realise just how often he and his are used, so that when you do hear she, it jumps out.

Mil came out of rehab on Thursday, the family had redecorated her whole bungalow, new furniture, everything painted, cleaned, with some family members working nightshifts and then spending all day washing walls.
When she came out she looked so much healthier, she was the woman she used to be, full of life and love for her family.

Friday, she was drinking again. I suspect she was drinking so Thursday night tbh. I can accept that she didn't know how far she had sunk, but her time in rehab has shown her, and her coming out and drinking is choosing to go back there. It's frustrating that there's nothing any of us can do other than wait until she runs out of cash again and it'll be back to hallucinations and shakes, or watch her drink herself to death.
Not after advice, just wanted to vent a little.

Oh INicked

There was a recent advert, Johnson's I think, where a baby is having a bath, and they used female pronouns. We were at my Mums and quite a few people commented on it sounding odd. That you don't realise just how often he and his are used, so that when you do hear she, it jumps out.

It's possible though for "she" to be used for children/babies in what is probably a very well-meaning gesture of egalitarianism but if it's the only circumstance in which "she" is frequently used or used as default, it comes over as "women need caring for/are more like children".

It's hard because the fields in which the main authors are likely to be more sensitive to this owing to being female (or working with lots of women and having a clue), are often those working with vulnerable populations e.g. child psychology, nursing.

Inicked. I've forgotten when you posted before but it doesn't seem like long enough for 'rehab'.

Oh dear INicked, I didn't spot that. I don't suppose people with alcoholism can be sectioned?

She was in for little over two weeks, dh said he was led to believe by staff it would be 6 weeks at least, I agree I dont think it's long enough, SIL had a phone call from her on Thursday from mil, saying she's allowed to come home, I'm wondering if she actually just discharged herself. I'm going up Sils later today, so I'll find out more, she's in bits.

The grandkids are gutted, they saw their old nan back for one day, looked forward to spending time with her again, she promised them, and now they are back to worrying about her dying.
I mean a 10 year old shouldn't be worrying that the time they pop in to check she's ok they'll find her dead. My nephew wants to sleep there at weekends so he can phone 999 if she chokes on her own vomit. They are all such great kids and I hate that they are having this worry placed on them. I want to call her selfish, but then feel guilty. I love her, and I'll be there to help dh and everyone put her back together again when she's ready, but it's so frustrating and draining. To watch her do this to herself, and to watch all the individual families struggle, especially the grandchildren, and being powerless to do anything other than wait for it to get bad again.

Writing it out has been a big help, thank you everyone

That sounds so hard. I admit that I don't really understand alcoholism. After all, if I hold a glass of something in my hand I can choose whether to drink it or not, but for an alcoholic there appears to be no choice, they HAVE to drink it. But then, how does one break that compulsion?
The only way seems to be to remove all possible temptation, to create a dry environment, but that is really difficult. If MIL has been counting the days and playing the part until she can get out again, then she will find a way to get hold of alcohol no matter what you do.

Not sure my pontifications are any help, but I can see why it must be so hard to live with.

Jesus, INicked, I'm so sorry.

INicked :(

I'm sorry INicked That sounds horrific.

So sorry about your MIL INicked, it must be horrible for all who love her.

I got told today my temp job finishes on Friday. Tomorrow I will go and see the agency to see if they have anything for me. As I called them on their bullshit I suspect they'll be reluctant to place me elsewhere, which is a bit shit. I'm sure the company I'm placed at will give me a good reference though, so it's not all bad. It's the easiest job in the world, and the people have been lovely, in the main. Especially the young Eastern European woman with whom I car share, she regards the UK as home, and I will miss her. And all the others too, the bloke with the hand damaged by unprotected machinery, the woman who got the job in a male dominated industry, the young women who are managers and are not afraid to tell their male underlings when their work is not up to scratch.

I knew this day was coming: this job was only supposed to be until the end of March, but yes, I'm sorry it's finishing.

Apologies for the self indulgent post, but it is The Pub.

Doctor Hope something good turns up for you.

Inicked so sorry about your mil.
Doctor I hope you get lucky again workwise. It makes such a difference to your life when you enjoy your job.
Last friday I had too leave my job which I really loved. So I'm also being a bit self indulgent in here . As well as my being unemployed, my ds and his gf are moving out tomorrow to their own flat and I will really miss them. So all change in the lily household. Large brandy please because I will not cry ...I will not cry... I will not cry..

Doctor I hope you find something you love just as much.

Dd brought her marked homework (where she swapped all the default "he" to "they" etc ) and at the bottom of my note where I'd explained why dd had crossed and replaced her words, teacher has put a smiley face.

Unrelated, but this weeks homework is mostly math, and dd has said she hates maths, that it's boring, which shocked me as she's really good at it, teacher said last parents evening that it's her strongest subject, that she does really well in everything, but maths is where she shines and she does really well without having to try. I don't know what to do to keep her interested but without making it a chore. I know at 10 she's young, but I feel like I've done the wrong thing in not pushing her more at home. Would I be "that parent" if I mention it at parents evening?