Does it matter that women get misgendered

[mariamin]

Women get misgendered by being called guys all the time.

Still, there's a big difference in my brother greeting me with "Hey, girl" and my boss doing the same thing. I don't go off in a huff when my brother does that, but I would raise all manner of hell if my boss did it.

The North East of where?

If the definition of 'feminist' was 'someone who has a huff if a relative uses a correctly-gendered term common in the local dialect of me as an individual' then I doubt that any of us would be one!

Northeast of Scotland, I think. Quine and loon are Doric words, I believe.

I was thinking a bit more about the use of 'guy' in my company.... in addition to it being a US-based group, in my current team there's only a couple with English as a first language (English-English, at that) - so for the rest, they may be completely oblivious of the fact that 'guys' may have begun as a gendered term as they may never have heard it used as such.

We may have to accept that because English is the lingua franca, some of the nuances of language are just going to get lost in the mists of local history.

And lass, when I first moved back to this particular part of Yorkshire, Our (or Your) Lass was a bit flummoxing.
It could be any female of any relationship, daughter, wife, child, cousin, sister, DP, elderly lady or bright young thing.
I liked that as well.

Buffy Back to if I don't agree with you why post?

You wrote My highland cousin and his mates use 'wifey' as a bit of a derogatory term, meaning older lady you wouldn't necessarily be interested in. Connotations of hatchet faced harridan. Lassie however, is more appreciative. Both equally as misogynistic, sadly.

I don't agree that lassie is misogynistic. You are imposing your own cultural imperialism on it. Of course I would be surprised if a male boss in Edinburgh called me lass. In my home village I would hardly notice if an older person man or woman, relative or not used it.

I find it bizarre that an Americanism which is gendered male is more acceptable to refer to women than a local dialect word meaning a female person. It's almost as if you're ashamed of being female.

And I think the quotation from Anthony and Cleopatra is beautiful.

violet exactly. "Guy" is acceptable but "lass" isn't?

Lassie is used in England anyway. It isn't a term unique to Highland culture.

Do explain in what context having a special name that differentiates between unattractive women to whom you're shackled and attractive women you'd fuck isn't objectifying and misogynist, won't you?

What are you on about? If you're referring to "lass" or "lassie" you have demonstrated you have absolutely no understanding of how that term is used. Your arrogant pronouncement of it being misogynistic is cultural imperialism.

I was about to apologise for being a bit over the top but your casual assumption that you knew better about that phrase really annoyed me. It is a recurring thread on AIBU and, as Violet says , the expression is widely used in certain parts of the country and liked by many. You apparently can ride roughshod over that and just wave it away as being misogynistic.

Buffy clearly stated in her original post that she was relating it to her own experience with her own family, who used wifey to denote unattractive and lassie attractive, both of which she found misogynistic.

Since you chose to ignore she was talking about her own experience, and called her a cultural imperialist, well, whaddya know? Her next response indicated her frustration with you but yet, in the context of her posts, still referred back to her own experience of the use of the words.

And now you were going to make peace but look! The shouty lady is being shouty (because you are denying her own experience. Again.) so now you won't.

Seriously, Still? What's your endgame here?

I disagree that it is normal to call groups of women "chaps". I would resent this and object if anyone tried to demean me by calling me "chap". I am a woman, and I see no reason why I should accept the default male.

alex, I've been using chaps to denote more than one man, woman or a mix of sexes for years and not one person has objected. I would honestly be mortified if any of them was offended. They know the sort of person I am and are not afraid to talk straight to me, as I do to them, though they have all the power as I'm just a temp. When this job ends I hope they think "yeah, he was ok actually" about me. That'll do for me.

Why are you telling alex her feelings aren't valid because you, as a bloke, has never knowingly offended anyone by calling them chaps and you are a good bloke?

You ok, buffy? I mean, you're not, but ...

Got to admit dr, I would think chaps was a bit rude too.

So Buffy can pontificate that the word is misogynistic based on her personal view but I can't based on my personal view and from the perspective of the culture I grew up in say it's not?

Her post was not limited to the experience with her cousins . It referred to her own experience but was a generalisation and dismissal of her highland cousins. An everyday word for them with no negative connotations is deemed misogynistic because Buffy knows better. "Still sadly misogynistic" One can hear the sigh- these dreadful uneducated peasants.

It's the very definition of cultural imperialism. Her follow up post about distinguishing between attractive and unattractive women shows even more that she misunderstands the use of the word.

I'd say she can pontificate because she, unlike you, makes sense when she writes and doesn't come across as if she's pushing a point for the sake of it, having already shown herself to have a (shall we say?) interestingly inconsistent attitude towards language?

Hm. 'Chaps' could be fine by me or really not, all depending on how it was said. Same with 'Lassie'. Possibly even with 'guys' as well.

Lots of backtracking going on. "I'm just reporting what my cousin said" Right - why then the "sadly misogynistic " comment tagged on at the end?

There was no point to that comment other than to put them in their place. No attempt to put the word in the context it was used or to understand it.

More backtracking Buffy.

Now you're talking about asking your cousin what he meant. You started off referring to your cousin and his mates. Asked all of them did you?

Your original post made no mention of this or of it being one individual.

And I suppose you have heard of the toast to the lassies - is that misogynistic too?

Yes you are backtracking. You are trying to make out you were referring to only your cousin. That is not what you wrote.

I am disagreeing with you. I know you don't like being disagreed with.