Does it matter that women get misgendered

[mariamin]

Women get misgendered by being called guys all the time.

But why haven't any collective nouns for women become generalised, 53?

Errrr... because we live in a paternalistic, male-dominated society?

Or because women can wear trousers whilst men would be ridiculed for wearing a dress?

The day skirts come into fashion for men then perhaps it will be worth introducing the concept.

My view is that there is far greater pressure on men than women to conform to a gender stereotype. We're the lucky ones. But feel free to disagree

Are men ridiculed for wearing a dress because this item of clothing is more closely associated with the sex with higher status, the female? Or because of the lower status association?

It's because women are devalued and considered lesser in our society. Language reflects that. So the collective terms are either neutral or male.

groups of women (and therefore collective names) are a target of ridicule and used as such

e.g. "mothers' meeting"; "ladies who lunch"; "you're behaving like a bunch of girls"; "handbags, ladies!"

I'd be more interested to know why it became acceptable for women to throw away their dresses and start wearing trousers. Probably the 'Land Girls' during WWI.

Do you personally feel that you're treated as having a lower value than men? I don't.

I disagree that it is normal to call groups of women "chaps". I would resent this and object if anyone tried to demean me by calling me "chap". I am a woman, and I see no reason why I should accept the default male.

What next? Blokes?

My eldest son used to attend an athletics club. One day, to encourage them, the coach shouted "Come on, are you girls?" or something along those lines. I was very angry that he had used the word in a derogatory manner and that he was teaching my son that it was acceptable to do so and see girls as lesser. My son is no longer a member of that club.

I am determined to turn the tables. If it is derogatory to call a man by female terms, then the same must hold true for me in reverse: we women should refuse to accept male terms and regard them as demeaning. One gender neutral collective term is all we need - and it isn't guys or chaps.

Do you personally feel that you're treated as having a lower value than men?

Yes. It did get better for a time, but now that I am an older woman, it's getting worse. Now I have ageism as well as sexism to contend with.

Perhaps it's because I work for an organisation that has a female Chief Exec and an even spread between the sexes at senior management level. Sexism just wouldn't be tolerated - nor would any derogatory remark that referred to an individual's personal characteristics.

I'm just trying to explore the thinking behind the assertion that women are devalued in some way. I don't feel it so I'm asking whether others do and if so why.

What makes you feel that people treat you as though you have less worth than a man?

SenecaFalls oh dear! Yes that must be upsetting. I seem to miss out on that except when I'm with female friends the same age. Perhaps it's because I have a tendency towards an Amazonian physique so the young ones know that I'm stronger and fitter than them

Since competitive sport is important to you, how about the differential earnings of many professional sports people by gender? The differential coverage of male and female sport in the media?

I strongly disagree that "lassies" is misogynistic. I have no issue at all being called "lass " or "quine".

"Now boast thee, death, in thy possession lies A lass unparalleled"- I'd be delighted if anyone said that as my eulogy.

I don't find being called a "guy" in the least bit flattering. Quite the opposite.

i think that phrase could bear some feminist analysis

Still, if one of the male senior partners in your firm referred to you and your fellow female senior partners as "lassies", you'd be fine with that?

"Now boast thee, death, in thy possession lies A lass unparalleled"

If anyone wrote that on my gravestone I'd get up and haunt them.

"Do you personally feel that you're treated as having a lower value than men?"

Yes.

My north east relatives use lass, quine, loon. Older women will use lass or quine for me . Keeping track of the multitude of cousins and who is related to whom will at weddings and funerals usually involve reference to "x being y's " "lass/loon/quine"

I am supposed to go off in a huff because a male cousin says something like "weel, lass it's guid to see you"? Good grief. No wonder I don't call myself a feminist.

Do you personally feel that you're treated as having a lower value than men?"

No

Good for you.

"I am supposed to go off in a huff because a male cousin says something like "weel, lass it's guid to see you"? Good grief. No wonder I don't call myself a feminist."

Nope, no one said this.

But you have spoken out strongly against "guys" which others are ok with.

Life's rich pageant, eh?

Tum ti tum.