Feminist Pub XVIII, in which the Bluestocking greets the first signs of spring with a glass of something soothing

[PuffinsAreFictitious]

Just starting this one as the last is nearly full

Oh, that's really difficult.

I think that's quite a negative message. It implies being 'dark' is bad, doesn't it?

I think people do do this with adopted children in a slightly clunky way - 'oh, no s/he has your mannerisms'. But if it's coming from relatives it does seem a bit odd.

Oh, they definitely do - lots of people, even our SW has said that one DC has my colouring (it's the hair, and is thanks to my v talented hairdresser).

It does seem to carry the implication that "dark" is "bad" I feel. I think all we can do is keep telling DC that it's lovely to be brown, and talking about it in positive tones. For example, the older DC has started noticing eye colour and keeps talking about their/our/younger DC's eye colour and I go on and talk about hair and skin colour. I know another family that have adopted from the same world region and they tell their small DC how many people love having brown skin, "look they all sit in the sun to get brown, people like to be brown like you!".

Of course it gets more complex as they get older with it being "OK" to tan but "less OK" to be "brown" but I feel a positive basis when younger helps. I hope so anyway.

I once crossed the Nullarbor Plain by coach, on account of it being the cheapest method.

It took 2.5 days.

(Fortunately, there weren't many people on it, so I could spread out across two seats and did sleep okay.)

Difficult, drspouse, since casual racism is alive and well. I don't know if the following applies to skin colour but i imagine it does - apparently girls get their body image from observing others, from how their mother describes her own body (and if their mother doesn't comment, not learning to be very self-critical), and from how their father describes them. So a mother saying "you look pretty" all the time doesn't have as much effect as if a father says it (fathers are the source of "how others perceive my appearance") and a father saying "I look fat" all the time doesn't have as much effect as a mother saying it (mothers are the source of self-perception of body image).

Presumably the same applies to skin colour, although exchanging female/male for 'my skin colour'/'not my skin colour'? If both parents look white though I'm not sure where the trusted source of "how other people who look like me feel about their appearance" comes from...

I never know quite what to do about "compliments" (mixed race children) about skin colour and features. > Perhaps I will just tell the DC that it's rude to make personal remarks. How are they supposed to react?? So unfair. (I usually just do a I-can't-believe-you-think-we-give-a-shit-about-your-opinion stare, which may be mistaken as either a she-can't-speak-English look or gormless.)

That comes across quite angry. Perhaps I am angry.

Very difficult. Can I ask how old the relative is? Is it possible that it is coming from that older person thing of not talking about adoption ? In which case they have to find a way of denying that the adoption is obvious.

In my experience these sort of comments come from all ages ...

I am sure they do I suppose I meant that the motivation could be coming from a different place with an older person.

No the relative, and the other commenter, are both around my age or younger, parents of school aged children.

In the non-European world setting where I have lived most, it is acceptable to compliment on skin colour (or just to comment - there's a full range of vocabulary for different shades of skin colour in the language I speak - very like European vocabulary for hair colour). It's how you describe someone to a third person, for example. I occasionally find myself using similar English terms and people look at me funnily (e.g. describing a colleague from that region as "very tall and thin and very very dark skinned" which they are and is how they'd be described in their home country, and which carries no more value judgement than "she's very tall and has long blonde hair in a ponytail").

I'm not nearly as familiar with the internal standards of either UK South Asian populations that the DCs will be exposed to here (but have enough contact to find out) or our DC's ethnicity (in general in their home country standards are similar to the UK but people are more forthright e.g. my family there would be more likely to comment on ethnicity, rather than suggest our DC was "really" white, and it's more common in the street etc.).

It's hard to know how to take colouring comments even without having other ethnicities thrown in. It's always from ladies of a certain age, in my experience, and the usual adjective is 'lovely'. It sounds odd to modern British sensibilities, but generally complimentary. Tone would be everything though.

So, the school holidays have started, then, going by the number of deleted posts today...

Personally, I would love to see a world where we didn't feel the need to comment on someone's appearance so much. Even complimenting someone can make them feel like their value is in their looks. So, describing someone's appearance, just as a description, is fine, but we should stay away from adding value to that, e.g. they have long, dark hair, v. lovely dark hair.

Depends what age your dc are, who it is, context etc. a casual comment in the park is hard, but if you're discussing it with someone you know you can get into talking it through more.

If your dc are young enough to do this, you could do the 'repeat with a slight change' thing, e.g "Yes, she/he does have long dark hair" rather than "lovely dark hair" etc. I would think that the aim is to let dc grow up knowing that their features are recognized and accepted, without being made to feel that their self worth is associated with them. So, describing them, and discussing the background to how they inherited their features is part of who they are, their history, but saying that it's nice/not nice can cause insecurity, because they have so little control over things like eye color, hair, skin, height etc. Ascribing value to something a person can't control is an 'ism' (racism, heightism) etc. and something that happens ALL the time (aren't you nice and tall etc). There will be nothing you can do about hearing it, but how you react, and talk it through with dcs will be important.

Well said kickass.

I agree with that almost entirely except I kind of feel like where one value of a feature is much, much more often praised in positive terms (lovely blonde hair, lovely curls, beautiful slim legs, such a quiet and good girl) then I think it's worth saying positive things about the opposite value (beautiful brown hair, soft straight hair, your legs are so powerful and good for running, you are so good at telling us long lovely stories, I love hearing you talk).

But you can't help having straight or curly hair, while being quiet or lively etc is a matter of behaviour that sometimes are suppressed/encouraged.

I've just finished reading stardust. What a lovely story. :)

But what to read now? Going to the library tomorrow ...

(Well, part of it is a lovely story. Being kidnapped by a witch for 60 years probably is not very lovely. )

But you can't help having straight or curly hair, while being quiet or lively etc is a matter of behaviour that sometimes are suppressed/encouraged.

No, you can't, but some aspects of appearance (especially blonde hair for some reason) are praised more than others... Actually overly curly hair is often criticised, even seen as a character flaw (if you were more persistent perhaps you could brush it smooth... in fact in some ethnicities it's "bad" hair). So if the rest of society is ignoring this feature or telling you it's ugly, somebody might need to redress the balance?

eurgh, insomnia sucks.

Still, who needs 4 hours sleep....

Just wanted to share a minor victory. I am doing my annual self appraisal (oh joy) which determines my performance related pay. I was intending to go for the 'good' rating. When DH asked why I wasn't going for outstanding, I said well, I'm not really. He then asked if my male colleague (not a man who has ever been tortured by self doubt) would say this. Ok, good point. So now my manager has said she will support me going for outstanding! I might not get it - probably won't as there are financial implications and it's all about cuts, but I'm chuffed that both DH and DManager think this. And quite pleased with myself for rejecting my initial oh I'm not worth it response. Round of drinks for everyone please barwoman.

well done EE.

I detest self-assessments. I always put myself as 'meets expectations' in every category because that's accurate - after being (and growing in) a job for nearly 30 years, I should hope that my expectations of myself are correct. I've forgotten exactly what the wording of the other categories, they probably suit an American male better than an English female though! Fortunately my boss understands this and ups things as she sees fit.

you SHOULD go for outstanding ... because you're worth it.

Although I get the idea behind self assessment, isn't it true that almost everybody has a pretty good idea of how they're doing anyway, and those that don't know are unlikely to gain insight from a paperwork exercise?

I think it's fair enough to say that an employee should give examples of times when they've done certain things (problem solve, customer support, whatever) as it's better than relying on a manager to remember everything, but that's different from asking the employee to assess themselves.

If anyone is bored and looking for something to get frothy about, here's a nice Facebook page claiming that only drug addicts and harlots have caesarian sections, and real women give birth completely naturally. Oh, and if you die in childbirth, that's just god's plan so it's A-okay! Of course, they are also opposed to feminists, vaccination, women who work and all free-thinking folk. All whilst claiming that they are the free thinkers. It's quite mind-boggling.

WHA!!!????

Do they genuinely believe all the narrow-minded crap they are peddling?! Seriously terrorists cells dress in mascot costumes so they can kidnap and sell my kids? Anyone who didn't give birth naturally should be investigated? WTAF.