The greens and prostitutes

[IceBeing]

Be gentle as I am new to thinking about this.

I found the Natalie Bennett's comments on decriminalising prostitution pretty persuasive - what am I missing?

She basically said that sex workers would like this policy (having contributed to it) and that research from other countries indicated it was the way forward.

Oh and a guilty of manslaughter due to diminished responsibility can be a worse outcome for the accused.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/scrap-outdated-infanticide-law-say-judges-495016.html

No Mary, not angry, bitter or a child. Just someone who has little patience with loads of quotes and zero citations.

i have not seen many on here from others so i did not bother initially.

And its not like google is hard to use if you need to but il post some from now on if its such a big deal.

"Oh and a guilty of manslaughter due to diminished responsibility can be a worse outcome for the accused."

Not by intent when the law was put in place.

We now know more on the matter so people want the law changed to reflect it.

Thank you Mary. Much appreciated.

Haven't RTFT yet, but I'd like to add my thoughts anyway (hope that's okay).

My issue with paying for sex is that i don't think you can (or should legally be allowed to) buy consent. Consent to sex should be freely given.

"But even if Mary is correct about men's urges we legislate against all sorts of urges for the good of society."

No we do not.

We legislate against acting upon them in certain ways, in this case that would be what we call rape and sexual assault laws aLong with other related laws.

Nope, still not good reasons why women have to have satisfy men's urges (if such overwhelming urges exist) at all costs

Specifically, why is it women who must do this. Plenty of good things about sex I agree, but the risks to women are enormous in comparison to those of men. Plus you know, bodily autonomy. But I suppose that isn't important in the face of men's "needs"

Tbh someone could produce evidence to suggest that men literally die from lack of sex, and I still wouldn't agree that they have a right to it at all costs. Because if there is another person involved then their consent is paramount

You do know as a defence it is only rarely available and it is also only available if the child that is killed is the one to whom the birth relates. The killing of an older child by a mother suffering from an imbalance of mind following child birth within twelve months would not be covered by infanticide.

It's also interesting that it seems to exist as a separate special defence in only a few countries and particularly interesting , for me, that it doesn't feature in Scots Law.

The reason I say that is amongst those involved in criminal law there's a view that the Scots system is in several respects fairer to the accused (corroboration, 15 rather than 12 jury members, no lengthy remand periods awaiting trial ) than in England and Wales. I've never heard of any one calling for this to be introduced in Scotland which makes me think it's of no more benefit than the general defence of diminished responsibility.

Jessica good point.

Tbh someone could produce evidence to suggest that men literally die from lack of sex, and I still wouldn't agree that they have a right to it at all costs. Because if there is another person involved then their consent is paramount

Yup.

I just wanted to raise again (as someone else did but I can't remember who sorry!) cottage's post from the webchat which identified one of the ways in which the green party's stance seems incongruous with their overall philosophy:

"The 'I can pay for it so I deserve it' attitude that is behind every environmental problem that exists in the world today would be challenged once and for all."

"Nope, still not good reasons why women have to have satisfy men's urges (if such overwhelming urges exist) at all costs"

And still nobody is saying we should unless we want to or at least im not anyway.

What i am saying is that the is a preponderance of evidence that how we think and perceive things is nothing like how men perceive things or at the very least quite different and so is how we react to things and it ultimately landed me here due to a google search.

Have you ever tried explaining the intricacies of another couples relationship to a man because it was what got me into thinking about how they obviously do not think or are aware like we are.

GOD i sat there and explained in exacting detail the reasons a couple i thought we both knew were having a problem with their relationship along with times and social events that he was part of but he had not even noticed one single thing.

He remembered being in each of the places (eventually) and that people communicated THATS IT, his entire memory consisted of being there and people speaking words to each other at points during the evening.

Barely any of the details of the conversations from any of the social events and lets not even bother with the implications for the relationship they had because he had no clue even AFTER i explained it.

He just sat there looking at me with a glazed look in his eyes and once he realized i had actually finished talking he said "oh hmm i dunno". DUNNO WHAT for gods sake i had not even asked him a question or his opinion on anything i had just explained things to him.

Anyway now i feel better thanks :).

"Shall we carry on talking about Green policy on prostitution now? Rather than evopsych nonsense dreamed up to justify sex based oppression?"

Sure why complicate it with something so absurdly unrelated to prostitution as sex is.

Men suck and we should force women not to do things we disprove of because they should be free to choose what they want.

Sex based oppression in that context means sex-based... as in the oppression of women based on their biological sex.

Not the act-of-sexual-intercourse-based.

"Have you ever tried explaining the intricacies of another couples relationship to a man because it was what got me into thinking about how they obviously do not think or are aware like we are."

Yes, frequently! And some fascinating conversations have resulted; I am lucky that my male friends (gay and straight) are mostly emotionally literate and interested in other people and their relationships.

Remind me what your point was again?

"The 'I can pay for it so I deserve it' attitude that is behind every environmental problem that exists in the world today would be challenged once and for all."

What about "its mine so i can do what i like with it and that includes selling it, giving it away or leasing it".

"You do not know what is best for you so you do not get to decide if you can to sell it, rent it out or give it away"

Hmm that is a familiar attitude.

I am desperate to understand how having sex gives women better teeth and better bladder control.

Though actually my bladder control couldn't be better, oddly considering I haven't had sex since 2010.

Science, innit.

Mary if you read the thread you will see that the women who have sold sex on this thread have not been responded to in that way at all

The issue is with men who buy, not women who sell

"Mary" claims to have found MN via google today and this posters first post was to bring up gamer gate and that feminists talk too much about misogyny. Just so you all know, bitter manhating prudes of FWR.

PS) No men don't suck. Not enough at least. If only they sucked more, they could easily satisfy each others important animalistic urges without spending any money. Men sucking more could clearly save their health and their lives.