The greens and prostitutes

[IceBeing]

Be gentle as I am new to thinking about this.

I found the Natalie Bennett's comments on decriminalising prostitution pretty persuasive - what am I missing?

She basically said that sex workers would like this policy (having contributed to it) and that research from other countries indicated it was the way forward.

Just had a response:

"There's a chicken-and-egg problem when comparing violence rates with legalised prostitution; did they legalise it there because things were worse there, or are things worse there because of legalisation?"

Sandor I said it would be like saying "well people will always be peado's, so let's legalise it" - I think his point is that the violence is still a crime but under legalisation it would be reported more easily. I said that Germany shows us this is not always the case - hotel owners can chuck out any woman who has 'caused problems' as they wish so as not to attract police attention. They seem to think they will be able to use legislation and tighter controls to stop this issue. I said men in power will always get around these as the business is adaptable and too much money to be made.

Good response lion - I'd add that one of the things that stops women from reporting abuse is that they don't want the fact that they're in prostitution to become publicly known. Legalisation makes no difference to stigma - men consider prostitutes to be sub-human either way, the law can't change that.

@lioninthesun
I've just read the comment from the person based in Amsterdam. By decriminalising prostitution on the Greens watch does that mean the UK cities will look like Amsterdam? It is disgusting there and It's hardly discreet is it, as you say domestic violence increases in areas where it is legalised and local view of women is skewed negatively.
It is also a concern that the prostitutes themselves need to be rehabilitated, given a chance to make something better of themselves, asked why they choose to put themselves in danger on a daily basis - not given a clean cubicle and DIY STD testing kits to get her 'business' up and running.
FFS I can't believe it is even being considered but as Outself pointed out any brothels should be an equally and evenly matched ratio of male and female prostitutes.

Yes, but it doesn't matter what sex the prostitute is - the harm is still being done by the men. That is where we should be starting to make policies and using outreach workers - nothing will change the worst parts of the trade (violence) without them actively wanting to make it stop.

I hate the way it seems to be a 'female problem' rather than the fault being with the men.

Agree that harm is done to prostitues of both sexes. I just think if you insisted on that you might make visible the way that people casually make arguments about legalising as long as no heterosexual man comes to any harm and/or is challenged about the harm of his sexuality

There should be money spent on getting these women to be business minded, not using their bodies to pleasure men for money because they have little else to fall back on and there are no other options.

It always comes back to wealth and money.

The main reason I want to vote green is to challenge the archaic 'pyramid scheme' system from perpetual greed and amassing wealth, harmfully keeping it out of circulation for individual desires, and start investing it back into things like education where these women (and men) prostitutes can CHOOSE a different path for themselves.

If Natalie had agreed to look at the policy again, and we could join up and debate it properly then I would have still voted for them. However the chances of it changing before the gen election are slim and as we haven't got details on the legislation they intend to implement with the legalisation, I can't simply assume that they will.

It would be a vote winner if a party could promise they would put all tax generated by prostitutes back into their help networks and not be used for anything else.

OH and thanks Rosie - think he's gone now since the chicken and egg comment, but i'll have that in reserve if he comes back saying they'll all come running for help if only it were legalised!

Tax generated by prostitutes? I can not see these ladies handing out invoices and chasing late payments nor filling out a tax return. It is run on the black economy ie: cash only - no income tax or vat. Very hard and insanely difficult to regulate.

Can I ask who you plan to vote for if your views align with Green policies all bar this one issue, which if i'm not mistaken places you centre - left, will it be Libdems or Labour?

It's too late to change manifesto's across any of the parties for this election. but the difference here is greens members vote and pass policies through a conference - Natalie doesn't devise them herself she is the leader, yes, but mainly the spokesperson for 50,000 members. Join as a member and put forward your change for a policy you feel strongly about.
If you stand firmly for what you believe in make your voice heard. Education and empathy is the way forward :)

Also due to the conflicts around this policy i doubt it would be implemented on this election term...
I don't agree with a few policies but i'm voting for them anyway with the hope they can adapt to changes ready for the next election. Plus I'm hoping they'll balance out the far right UKIP views.

It was said upthread that some prostitutes do pay tax. It may not be much, but i'd think it was a better way to use their money.

I don't really know who to vote for now. My friend also said I should join up and fight from within, but either way it will be too late for this election, and my fear is it would be one of the first things they would look to change. It has been a hard decision as I like most of their policies and I do genuinely think they are keen to give women a better rap than any other party. Then this bizarre oxymoron of a policy that wants to ensure men see us as a commodity and puts them firmly in power to use the worst violence and abuse seen in any profession in the world I'm still quite confused about why WHO, The Lancet and Amnesty aren't actually realising the 'problem' is with men and instead are saying legalisation is the way forward; as if they just want it to go away and not be part of the crime figures or something.

Isn't it a bit of a leap of faith though, that they won't simply roll it out so that they don't look weak like the Lib Dem turnabout on student fees!

I felt sick reading about the "flat rate" brothels.

I live in Germany. So I have just looked up the local brothels out of morbid curiosity and found that one has a "happy hour" (which lasts most of the day) where you can hire a prostitute to do "all your preferences except anal". And a loyalty discount. Two of them are open 24 hours a day, 365 days a year.

Feel a bit sick now :( There are adverts for this place in the supermarket on the trollies.

Thank you for all comments

Just though I would mention that I have mentioned this "discussion" to two friends in the last two days

Both friends when I said about legalising it were starting to say that it was a good idea...until I mentioned a comment I'd heard in here that technically (maybe in years to come) that people on benefits maybe sanctioned if they didn't take these type of jobs

They are not so keen now...and it hadn't occurred to any of us til this thread

Everyday is an education on here

Thanks again

@Rufusthereindeer
That goes completely against human rights. Where did this information come from?

@berty
That is disgusting but more so that it is advertised in supermarkets!! What is domestic violence and sexism like in your area of Germany?

pan

It was just someone's comment that it was the thin end of the wedge, you would like to think it wouldn't happen but if it's a perfectly legal job...well you never know I suppose

If it's a legal job just like any other, why should it be treated differently than any other job?

Because it violates sense of self worth and people should be given opportunities to CHOOSE their own paths in life not be forced into it because they are desperate for money, have no education, no skills and no other options. Women need to have something to fall back on in terms of a career not be reliant on men for support. Investment needs to go into supporting this.

If you make it a viable option to view sex as a 'job' it undermines healthy relationships and human rights.
women (and men) prostitutes should have a specialised support network not be free to earn from it legally. many vulnerable young girls may see it as a money making scheme and demoralise / damage themselves mentally in the process and their future relationships will suffer.
Sex is not a commodity and should not be viewed as such, your article about the pussy club in stuttgart sickened me to the absolute core to think there are women being treated as cattle - or "cash cows". In this day and age? So fucking wrong.

It is the SYSTEM that is corrupt. it always comes back to money and those at the top "pulling the strings" change the system and change the way we view ourselves as equals in society. If women CHOOSE to be prostitutes in a safe and discreet way, such as kim does, then that is her / their personal choice. they are self supporting, not 'pimped' out. safety networks should be available.
If kim had other options to train in a field of her choosing and earn the same or more in another way - would she take a different path I wonder?

Where prostitution thrives the value of women's lives is low and the gendered violence they suffer has not decreased. In fact, the legalized province of Victoria, Australia has both the country’s highest domestic violence rates and child prostitution rates.

Prostitution is legal in various forms in every 'province' of Australia. Seems like poor use of 'facts' and language to me, trading on the ignorance of the reader to allow them to imagine its illegal in other 'provinces' by virtue of how its stated, thereby seeking to connect increased domestic violence to the legality of prostitution.