Feminist Pub 17: The Bluestocking frolics in the fells and fens of feminism

[AKnickerfulOfMenace]

This is the 17th incarnation of the Feminist Pub!

Here be goats, cannons and chat on feminism and related themes. Also snacks. And booze, copious booze.

Welcome!

'what does "romance" mean for a feminist? '

Someone taking the trouble to work out what you really like.

I think that real romance is when someone really gets you so that they know what will make you happy. For me, it was DH getting me a little cute dragon ornament. I still really love that dragon, and it reminds me of a very happy moment in my life.

Another time was him going down on one knee in Sainsbury's car park. We'd already told everyone we were engaged, and fixed a date, but there was a delay with the ring. Then I worked closer to the jeweller's so when it came in, I went to pick it up. Because of that we completely missed the typical 'romantic' proposal. Instead, DH spontaneously went down on one knee, partly as a cheesey joke, but also because it was the first opportunity to 'do' a proposal (this was about two months after deciding to get married).

They may well seem stupid to other people (and DH in the middle of a car park probably looked stupid) but they were romantic for us.

For one couple it could be the 'expected' red roses, chocolate and cards, or it could be something completely different, but it will make the other person happy so you do it anyway.

kickass As long as he didn't kneel behind a reversing car.

Not sure the French is especially romantic to me. I've been to Paris a few times and it never felt very romantic. TBH I prefer London. French food is OK for a couple of days but one does crave a bit of spice after a while.

It does seem a lot of so-called "romance" is pretty creepy...

I'm not even sure Romeo and Juliet is romantic. Short-lived, yes, but romantic?

What does romance mean to me?

An unexpected gesture that is appreciated by the other person but isn't done with reciprocity in mind.

kickass that's lovely .

I just asked dp what he thought was romantic, and he said when we go for an evening walk in the woodland across the road. Which is nice.

I once ordered flowers to be delivered to him on our anniversary (he was at home). He liked them but was very confused by the unconventionality so I don't think I'll do that again!

LOL Petula. Which is the unconventionality? A woman sending a man flowers or you sending him flowers which you never did before?

Secondary school choice out - got first choice, though 2nd and 3rd choices would have been fine too. I think some people are a bit disappointed at the lack of stress this is for us. We are very lucky.

Now I think I'll source a phone for DS1. He went out on his own yesterday for the first time! And came back with extremely muddy trousers ...

This morning at playground everyone was very excited and talking at the top of their boys. Cue TA boss shouts "CALM DOWN BOYS" from a few feet away. But it was a mixed group... I dislike addressing people as "boys" or "girls" ...

i like getting flowers, they make the house look and smell nice - sometimes dp will get them for my birthday or anniversary but i don't expect it and it's always a nice surprise - it's less "for me" than it is something to decorate the house iyswim. i'll also will buy flowers for the house from time to time and i grow them to cut too. dp always likes it when there are flowers in the house. i think it was both aspects that confused him - women don't often send men flowers and i hadn't sent him flowers before and until he read the card he thought they were for me!

I've sent flowers to men before.

I buy myself flowers too (no one else does.) I got £10 of hyacinths for £1 in M&S at the end of last week, and the smell of them is almost overpowering - but great.

Dh and I very rarely buy each other gifts for birthdays or other occasions and every year I get comments about him being unromantic when friends or family ask "what did he get you?", I'll explain that we don't do gifts, we both feel weird opening gifts but there's still an unspoken expectation from others that even though I've said I don't want a gift, he should still get me one, yet when it's his birthday and I'll tell others I've not gotten him anything and why, it's just accepted. I think it's more romantic that he has respected my wishes and not gone and bought me something after me specifically asking not to. Hope that made sense.

It the little things like when he does the shopping and returns with specific brands he knows I like, or he'll set a reminder on the TV for program's he knows I like that haven't noticed are on so I don't miss it, those type of things have more value to me than him rushing out to buy something just because it's a certain date.

I tend to go for plants rather than flowers on the principle that they'll last longer and will retain their own life... works until I kill the plants anyway. My dh gets me plants sometimes.

BreakingDad - sorry, skipping back a few posts, and hope you don't mind me asking. If you could go back in time and talk to your parents when you were that junior school child, what would you want them to do? DS (7) sometimes complains to me about girls with crushes on him, and how embarrassing he finds it, and how much their behaviour gets to him, but beyond saying "Yes, that must be terrible, it's wrong to chase someone when they've told you they're not interested, so what these girls are doing is wrong", I'm not quite sure what to do about it.

Can I just say AAAARRRRGGGGHHHH?

AAAARRRRGGGGHHHH!!!!

As you were.

I have a cold and a headache and a cough and I'm reviewing a paper that's full of mistakes and have no purpose. I want to kick something but that might make my head fall off.

Ask away Lurcio, I'm not sure how much would could have helped, though saying that "it's wrong to chase someone when they've told you they're not or appear to be interested" would have helped. My parents didn't really talk much about relationships at all.

With the first to me they had defaced my books and I was worried I was going to get in trouble with the teacher + endure parents wrath.
With the second stalking I seemed more conscious of not 'telling on a girl' compared to the first time. I don't know if trying to explain that its not silly for a male to spur a female would help. As guess that could be the next thing that by rejecting them they worry of being bullied of liking boys or is that too young, I don't know how perceptions are these days at that age?

Obviously I understand women suffer way more stalking/creepyness than men, but hope can help nip the source in the bud?

Are working with a clinet whose doing things for International womans day, just spoke to lady in HR I know in our company and they say we are doing nothing

*client

all our IWD activities are happening on one single site, that takes 45 mins to get to from the main site . i have commented on this

I don't think I've ever heard mention of IWD in my company - should I have?

I wonder if today's Dilbert cartoon is in anticipation?

As a complete change of subject, and noticing that a thread on misogynistic bullies in families has been revived and we have another on feminism and racism (good an excuse an any), I've just been reading something about the intersection of feminism with other forms of entitlement. Generally the rulers of the world are these rich white caucasian males who are anti-women, anti-colour, anti-everything except themselves. Particularly I'm looking at the intersection of feminism and environmentalism. That was a long build-up to not-much.

In that light I'm feeling extra disappointed about the attitude of the Green Party towards feminism at the moment. It's often been suggested that environmentalism, non-exploitation, goes hand in hand with a more feminist appreciation of planet earth. So why the blazes are they turning on us? They are sponsoring transgender over us, and their line on prostitution begins to look suspicious with that in mind.

I'm being very grumbly lately.