If you have dds, do you think their life will be better than yours (from the pov of being a woman, not in general)?

[Takver]

Struggling with how to word this, but I was thinking about it the other day. I left school in 1988, so a long time ago now. I would say that the opportunties I had were noticeably better than say if I'd been 10 years older and finished school in 1978. But I don't really see that there have been any major improvements since then. As in, I don't think my dd will have a better chance in life than I did, as regards sexism. What do others reckon - am I being pessimistic?

I guess my comparison would be that life for a LGBTQ teen would I think be a great deal better than for someone in the same position 30 years ago, although obviously there is still bullying, intolerance et al.

That's interesting, *That bloody woman", I was a student in the eighties, everyone with even half a brain was a feminist. I don't think that's the case now. The very meaning of what it is to be a feminist has been muddied. My friend was shocked that her, apparently intelligent, student daughter stated that she wasn't a feminist, because she, "Didn't hate men". She believed a feminist was the female equivalent of a chauvinist.

Funny isn't it how perceptions and experiences are different Takver.
I can imagine that within more professional or academic circles feminism was more accepted in the 80's -but I wasn't in that sort of world.I found there was very much the feeling that we were still breaking ground,taking abuse that would no way be tolerated nowadays.
I get what you're saying about some young women now not wanting to associate with some of the misconceptions around feminism.Perhaps thats still a throwback of how we were branded.I think the most worrying aspect is that it seems much of this misconception now is from women -whereas before it was men,presumably feeling threatened,who I felt to be the most vocal opponents of feminism.
But now I see so many more people talking about 'womens issues' - not on the margins,but in the mainstream.
Perhaps I'm talking crap -its a very subjective observation -and that hasn't been the majorities experience.

I was in the rural midlands in the 1980s, ThatBloodyWoman so not really dealing with academic or professional circles (I went to uni at the end of 1988, but I was definitely an exception in my school / family).

I think I was experiencing feminism from a different end, actually mostly via my mother & grandmother who saw it as an extension of socialism and the wider class struggle.

DD is only 12, and the majority of her close friends are from hippy backgrounds (and her closest friend's mum worked at Women's Aid for years) , so I've not had any negative comments about feminism from them, but I don't know about her school peers in general.

Buffy things like being made to wear a coat when you don't feel cold may seem trivial, but actually I don't think they are. Not that I would complain to teachers (!) but definitely worth discussing with dc.

Having a similar issue with dd, she likes her privacy, she has toys downstairs now that she's happy for her cousins to play with but anything precious to her is kept in her room, asking family to not just send their children up to her room doesn't go down well and I probably come across all pfb but I think at 10 she should have some say in who is going into her room and then through her things.
She's upset as she's found out that the school have been through the lunch boxes, school didn't ask permission and dd is not happy, she hates the thought if someone going her stuff, it may just be a lunchbox but to her it's important, I know it's prob not a big deal but to dd it is and I don't what to just dismiss her but going to the school feels ott. She's had the same with being made to wear her coat too, she's opening it up the minute we are off school grounds.

The book 'how to talk...' makes this point about respecting kids as you would adults. I'd be a bit if work went through my lunchbox.

Can I go back to pg 4 (thought this thread had degeneratd so stopped watching it) and grimble saying "It's the irony that as girls have, supposedly, become more free and autonomous they actually seem to be less able to resist pressures."
I've noticed that. Any thoughts about why, and how to instil it back into our dds?

There was lots of pressure to groom and be trendy when I was at school in 80's. Perhaps many of us couldn't indulge it because of finances (or stricter parenting?), so we grew up to ignore it?

I can't see it as having a causal relationship with women's empowerment as House and Takver (hello fellow fan) suggested when I remember geishas, and indeed historical western costumes. The last seems to link in with the availability of luxury too.

(quick nc sorry) I'm not doing very well today am I. Have now properly rtft and followed the circle. I think I'd prefer the gentler forms of encouraging peer pressure resistance over the adverse ones too.

House you are right about more pressure, but in the 1950s/60s girls were so bombarded with all the things they weren't allowed to do or were frowned on for doing - 'unsuitable' activities, jobs, subjects at school, more pressure to be 'ladylike', less personal responsibility (needing male guarantors etc), the horror of pregnancy outside marriage and so on, so the balance between overall pressure and the need to resist it is probably similar - simply different pressures.

I certainly don't think the emphasis should be on girls to resist rather than tackling the shit itself. But, also in fairness, I think you will find that us second wave 60s feminists tackled a whole load of shit from double standards to equal pay. It was a revolutionary decade or two.

Yes

Is the problem that the pressures are more insidious? Actually I'm not even sure that's the case - thinking of how women were mocked for complaining eg about girly calendars in the workplace in the past - and how hard it was to stand up and say 'no, it's not that I don't have a sense of humour, this is just shit'. As house says, same shit, different colour.