If you have dds, do you think their life will be better than yours (from the pov of being a woman, not in general)?

[Takver]

Struggling with how to word this, but I was thinking about it the other day. I left school in 1988, so a long time ago now. I would say that the opportunties I had were noticeably better than say if I'd been 10 years older and finished school in 1978. But I don't really see that there have been any major improvements since then. As in, I don't think my dd will have a better chance in life than I did, as regards sexism. What do others reckon - am I being pessimistic?

I guess my comparison would be that life for a LGBTQ teen would I think be a great deal better than for someone in the same position 30 years ago, although obviously there is still bullying, intolerance et al.

Well, since I don't believe that staying at home is a good choice, that bit doesn't worry me.

Sunny - broadly speaking, accountancy. It's much easier to get on as a woman these days than it was when I began training. I'm still often the only woman in the room at high level things, but not as often as I used to be - in 10 years time or hopefully much sooner there will probably be something approaching parity.

thanks lotta.
She is practically threatening to leave home if I try to discuss this with the school....erghgghhghgh.

Good thread question.

I left school in the mid 90s. I have a 4 year old DD.

In terms of our family DD will have a much more feminist upbringing than me. I steer away from the sparkly princess thing, take her to football class and the science museum and gently challenge gender stereotypes when e encounter them (Why can't girls like trains? Yes daddies do cry. Of course mummies can be doctors, look at so-and -so's mum). My sister and I were told repeatedly by our stepdad, 'What do you know? You're only a girl'.

In terms of wider culture/ nationally, I don't know. Had page 3 truly been dropped I'd be more optimistic. I am greatly encouraged by feminists like Holly McNish and Caitlin Moran - and by current feminist organisations/ campaigns (No more page 3, Object, Pink Stinks, #lettoysbetoys). Lets hope social media spreads the revolution faster!

'She is practically threatening to leave home if I try to discuss this with the school....erghgghhghgh'

Oh. That's a tough one then. I can understand her POV but also understand why you want to drop the boy in it. I guess you need to go with whatever you think will be best for your DD. She sounds like she can handle herself by the way - well done!

In terms of her gender, no, the easy availibility of porn and the representation of women in the media is worse, imo, than since I was at school in the nineties.
In terms of her individual chances, yes, she is a high performing student and where and how she is being educated is supportive of that.
Now, just to tackle her desire to be prom queen...

thanks lotta although the fact she can handle herself is more to do with having a twin brother, I cannot take credit for it, lol.

"the additional financial pressures on families, and the need for two incomes."

Actually, I think that financial pressures are a very big deal now obviously for both sexes, but since women on average earn so much less over their life cycle they tend to suffer more from economic stress, benefits cuts esp for carers etc. I know the 80s were godawful, but there was an optimistic sense I think that things could get better for everyone, I don't see that now, so maybe that colours my view of the opportunities for girls.

I take your point though hmc about generations of entrenched sexism, I guess there was a seismic shift in the 70s, including equality legislation, which my generation benefitted from, whereas now it's more a gradual one step forwards two back.

I think it has got worse for SAHMs and worse for younger mothers. There is far more prejudice now than ever before against those groups, which must have huge consequences for them when they go into the workplace.

It has also got far worse for low income women, due to no improvements for part time workers and low paid workers, and benefits cuts and the increased cost of housing. I think this coupled with withdrawl of legal aid for women leaving their partners must be leaving many women trapped in relationships.

Things are also worse for older women, carers and disabled women, due to benefits cuts.

Things are a lot, lot better for lesbians. There are also more educational opportunities for women, particularly for women from minority ethnic groups, but I think a combination of racism and sexism is still going to put barriers up for women of Bangladeshi and Pakistani heritage.

well since I don't believe staying at home is a good choice that bit doesn't worry me

Personally I don't believe putting a young child in daycare is a good choice. But I respect other people's right to do it, and would be concerned if that choice was taken away.

I think employment wise she will be better off and while that sounds great in principal it's our interpersonal relationships that make out life what it is. She's most likely to be straight, statistically, so to me that means she will have to be with some guy or a series of guys who basically thinks jamming a cock down his partner's throat is good sex (for both of them) or who has seen hundreds of videos called "giant cocks rammed up dirty whore's asses"

How the fuck do we get past that?

And she'll have to work with said guys.

It is quite heartening that his friends put him in his place.^

Were they putting him in his place or just clever enough to realize that he would have to admit to sexual harassment? and also doing him the favor of not letting the whole school know he had his handed to him by a girl?

Regarding SAHM (I am one) if anything I think there will be more because the cost of child care is so exorbitant and because the government doesn't seem to care about making decent child care available.

I can't afford to work right now.

As long as more women make less money than their partners they will always be the default carer in my situation and also as long as child care is seen as women's work and men's companies don't have an expectation of equal leave it will stay that way

And she'll have to work with said guys.

I think sexual harassment is being dealt with better now than in the past, so yes, she'll have to work with them and can't help what they think but hopefully they will know to keep it to themselves

Small comfort I guess?

Were they putting him in his place or just clever enough to realize that he would have to admit to sexual harassment? and also doing him the favor of not letting the whole school know he had his handed to him by a girl?

Wow. You really don't think there are any good males out there, do you? That level of cynicism is so sad.

It is sad, isn't it? Hopefully men will change and my daughter can be less cynical. I won't hold my breath though

" hmc Yes, there is still objectification of women and sexism, but I think we forget how very entrenched and pervasive (and wholly accepted) those attitudes were back in the 70's / 80's (when I was growing up).....I really don't think that shows like Benny Hill would get an airing now."

^^this. I'm a child of the 70s and the culture, coupled with a fairly oppressive df, have led me to be the "ideal" submissive non argumentative woman. If I "look pretty and agree a lot my" life will be easier.

I don't see this at all with dd (now at uni) She absolutely embodies assertive, not aggressive or passive. When I hear her rebuke her bf the compliant female in me cringes but that is my upbringing, I know she is acting as any rational adult would. She seems unaffected by the make up debate, wears it only to parties, not a matter of course. Her peers at school seemed the same, a great bunch of girls, and boys too.

I thought I could do anything but by the age of 25 I'd all but given up in the workplace. I can see her negotiating the world much more on her terms, not influenced by any particular culture, which I guess is all I could ask for.

I've been taking my daughter to universities around the UK as she decides where to study next year. I took mum mum on one of the open days. Mum was well and truly blown away by how my daughter is prepared to up sticks and live in a different part of the country, with all that entails, at the grand old age of 18. It's something she never would have considered when the same age, 50 years ago. There is no comparison between the opportunities that gran and granddaughter have in their lives. So much has changed for the better.

Hopefully a significant proportion of men will be taking a significant proportion of parental leave. That should have postive knock on effects to proportions of women in various roles and the pay gap.

Absolutely, Yonic. I'd have jumped at the chance. I think it will make a massive difference.

There is no comparison between the opportunities that gran and granddaughter have in their lives.

Yes and I bet there was absolutely no expectation that your mother be completely hairless and in to anal either

She is both - always been a free spirit, has mum.

Also regarding Benny Hill, I think that kind of humour is just seen as passé in general. Rape jokes and jokes where women are naked or their clothes fall off or are sexually harassed still permeate the media. The "we saw your boobs" gag on The Oscars a couple years ago was a very good example

The Sun only got rid of the News in Briefs blurb last year. The whole joke was that a naked woman had an intelligent opinion

She is both - always been a free spirit, has mum.

unusual relationship you have with your mother.

Well, you asked. No secrets in our family

I think my DDs will have as good opportunities in their schooling and careers. Sexually, I worry. They will be put under pressure to so many things I wouldn't have heard of as a young woman.