If you have dds, do you think their life will be better than yours (from the pov of being a woman, not in general)?

[Takver]

Struggling with how to word this, but I was thinking about it the other day. I left school in 1988, so a long time ago now. I would say that the opportunties I had were noticeably better than say if I'd been 10 years older and finished school in 1978. But I don't really see that there have been any major improvements since then. As in, I don't think my dd will have a better chance in life than I did, as regards sexism. What do others reckon - am I being pessimistic?

I guess my comparison would be that life for a LGBTQ teen would I think be a great deal better than for someone in the same position 30 years ago, although obviously there is still bullying, intolerance et al.

As a woman in current society I have had the chance to be in a wonderful equal marriage, have never been coerced in to sex,and was never even on my radar as a young girl, and have been able to pursue various career ambitions. I hope our dds are able to experience the same.

That's brilliant Kirby. Do you think there's anything we can do so that more girls have experiences like that?

I do feel heartened that men who engage in grooming etc are starting to fell the force of the law. That is a step forward IMO.

Erm not sure really. I just didn't think men did anything that when I was younger. I knew there 'bad' men like rapists or sexual abusers, but didn't really know there was a thing called date rape, or that men you would spend time with would do anything like that until I was well into my 20s.

:) would be lovely if that was the experience across the board!

Well Yops. I was in my twenties in the 1960s and I can sure as hell tell you that dog-eared copies of Mayfair and Playboy and a few X rated films were the extent of porn in day to day life then for teenagers. It was nothing like the persistent all pervasive pornification of society that our youngsters face today.

There was none of the pressure to grow up before you were barely into double figures age-wise. I can't speak for everyone obviously in the 60s but in my own circle there was nowhere near the pressure from boys that some girls experience today. And any unwanted attention was swiftly dealt with. And when there was unwanted pressure girls did not seem scared then to tell boys to fuck off.

It's the irony that as girls have, supposedly, become more free and autonomous they actually seem to be less able to resist pressures. And sexism in everyday life (as opposed to on telly or in the films) seems even more prevalent than it was. All very counter-intuitive.

Career wise of course it's better for our daughters, much more opportunity. Though there was a lot of satisfaction for me in being a member of the generation that broke down more work barriers in a decade than in the past century (war time apart of course).

NO but in the feminism section we do tend to stick to coherent discussions about feminism, and comments from men about how much better women today have it while not actually understanding anything about being a woman today do tend to go down like a lead balloon.

Well, actually you have different types of discussions. Some serious, some lighthearted. Some even humorous. Some theoretical, some practical, some academic, and some a right old mixture of all of those.

And while I can't claim to be a woman, I have raised one for the last 18 years, and not done a bad job. So I know a little about her and her life and her growing up and her hopes and fears. So I am not clueless. It's like how you cannot be a man, but you can comment on men's behaviour, situations, experiences and motivations.

I don't think me repeating stuff that my mum said on our visit to Birmingham Uni is somehow me purporting to be a woman, or pretending that I understand what it is to be one. But my mum thought that my daughter's experience and opportunities were remarkable in comparison to her own, so I mentioned it. It didn't seem that controversial at the time. It still doesn't, to be honest.

It's true though. It's a bit of a closed shop, this place. The reaction to what someone says depends on who they are, not what they say.

It's true though. It's a bit of a closed shop, this place.

Well you're welcome to leave if it doesn't suit you.

The reaction to what someone says depends on who they are, not what they say.

I NC regularly (have done in the past week) people don't "recognize" me. They just "recognize" I'm not out to antagonize.

I don't think that's true at all, Yops. There have been threads posted by several people who aren't regulars on the board, all of which have been responded to in the same way as if Buffy or LRD had posted them. This is in the last week or so.

You made what you believed to be a flippant comment, which wasn't received in that way, and then went on a bit of a rant. It's ok, we've probably all done it, however, most of us didn't grumble on about how only feminists are allowed to be lighthearted here and closed shops. Most of us stopped and listened read and learned a bit first.

I do think life will be better broadly, if only because awareness of women's issues and the all pervasive sexism is starting to filter through. I hope that as dd grows up she will benefit increasinglyz from this.

I do worry about the insidious ness of social media however and the way it seems to be used to bring girls back down. A colleague was telling me about a girl In her ds' class who had naked pictures of her posted on FB by her ex boyfriend in retaliation for her giving him a hard time because he kissed another girl. That level of cruelty was always in teenage relationships I suspect, but it was less public and didn't involve everyone else. And it does always seem to be about undermining girls. That worries me. A lot. It feels like a real step back and a whole new fight we will have to figure out for our daughters.

It was the nature of it really. I didn't say that all was rosy. I didn't claim that you'd never had it so good. I made a comment about one aspect that had changed for the better. The reply was rather accusatory - what about x and y? I never denied x and y. Compare that with kirbymaster's comment at 21:30, and the immediate reply that got. Am I imagining a different tone completely?

Yes, I think you are Yops. Sorry.

Well, if I did I am sorry. I've got the wrong end of the stick somewhere along the line. Probably best I go to bed.

I hope that you are not put off from contributing here in future Yops

I'm really surprised by the people on here who are saying that there was no coercion to have sex in earlier years, or that sex was viewed more as mutual than male-only pleasure. Not where I come from, I can tell you. The difference nowadays as far as I can see is the prevalence of communications technology in the hands of these kids. Different ball game from the days of Kodak.

I agree with Yops that this section of MN is very much a closed shop. I never feel comfortable posting on threads here and the fact that people dismiss others who make this comment (this isn't the first time I've seen someone express similar sentiments) just underlines that really. As does the comment that people who get jumped on should 'learn' which I think is a touch...arrogant? I felt jumped on when my passing comment about things being better now for women in my particular profession than they were when I was young was used as a platform for some whatabouttery regarding SAHMs. I felt like my input was completely dismissed because I 'don't belong'. So, as suggested by another poster - I won't come back.

I wasn't even posting 'an opposing view'! I made it clear that the only way my girls' life was likely to be better than mine would be if they entered the same career (which they don't want to do). That actually fits right in with the doom and gloom tenor of the thread (which I agree with, I think that as Blur would say modern life is rubbish (mainly)). And yet still I was subjected to whatabouttery and then ignored. So what's the point trying to penetrate the clique?

"Personally I don't believe putting a young child in daycare is a good choice. But I respect other people's right to do it, and would be concerned if that choice was taken away."

Was it this response, GB?

One of the things that sometimes happens in FWR is that a thread is a mix of regulars and non regulars. Sometimes non regulars disagree with another non regular and then tell the regulars that the section is unfriendly.

When that happens, I kinda want to cry.