Changes in how rape will be investigated- about time!

[AWholeLottaNosy]

I just read this and I was really pleased. It's about time rape was investigated and prosecuted differently considering the appalling rape conviction rate we have in this country. Imagine there will be an outcry from all the MRAs, but, I think it's very good news...

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/11375667/Men-must-prove-a-woman-said-Yes-under-tough-new-rape-rules.html

i would encourage the seeking of genuine enthusiasm more, because a "yes" could be coerced, if you are of a mind to rape anyway.

If you aren't sure then ask. If you are sure, then you should be able to tell someone what lead you to that conclusion. I'm absolutely baffled why this is so hard, tbh.

Enthusiasm is very difficult to define. But so is 'reasonable', and we've been happy with the idea of 'reasonable doubt' for a long time now.

And as for the 'tell your sons to look for enthusiasm' idea, I'm astounded that this needs pointing out. Why the hell would you want your son having sex unless both partners were enthusiastic about it?! I mean, its not like we live in a world where women don't enjoy sex, and is something we do to please men. Or maybe I'm doing it wrong.

Oh I agree Petula, but I'm assuming MoreBeta isn't a rapist. I'm assuming he's just an ordinary man who for some reason, can't read body signals. If that is the case then it would be best for him to use words to find out what's going on.

It's funny isn't it. Men are always telling us we are giving off signals that we want sex (short skirts, drinking, looking in their general direction, being in possession of a vagina etc) whether or not we are consciously giving these signals ourselves. Yet somehow they are not capable of reading the signals when we are frantically giving them out that we don't want sex.

It's almost as if they don't want to see them.....

ah i see what you mean, and yes, it would be worth making that clear prior to any sexual involvement at all, and i don't think any woman would object to that

"i am not good at reading body language. if/when it comes down to it, please could you verbally signal whether or not you are happy to engage in penetrative sex in that moment."

i'm not being sarcastic btw. i imagine there are people who need these sorts of things made clear in this way, and they would need to take additional steps to ensure that they are having consensual sex

I'm at a loss though to understand how you could be less than an inch from someone, your body literally attached to theirs, and still not be aware of whether they're smiling, moaning, touching you, etc all the things people do when they're enjoying sex.

It speaks volume about his sexual technique calindana

Really? I'm not very sexually experienced but are there really men out there (non-rapists) who just hop on and totally ignore their partner?

And can we please get rid of this notion that verbal consent means "signed in triplicate, with the signatures witnessed" nonsense, or that it somehow "destroys the mood"? If you can't manage to say "Do you want to have sex?" in a way that is a sexy come on (with choice of words picked according to your partner's personality - some may respond to an earthy "fancy a fuck?", others to a "do you want me inside you?" etc.), then perhaps you aren't grown up enough to be having sex.

I can't believe how many men out there must be having really, really crap sex all the time, if they honestly don't know what enthusiastic participation feels like! That somehow we're stuck in a time warp where a lot of men think women are sexual gatekeepers, who reluctantly agree to sex for other reasons (conception, keeping a man in a relationship, I dunno, plain masochism, maybe?) and then lie back and think of England for the duration.

With my DH if I even look a tiny bit uncomfortable (because my arms a bit squashed or something) he stops immediately and won't carry on until he's sure I'm ok. And yes, amazingly, he does say "are you ok?" This is after 13 years together - we don't just blindly stick bits in each other.

MoreBeta, you are painting an incredibly poor picture of yourself, and of men in general. Do you seriously believe that the average man can't tell whether or not a woman wants sex, unless she verbally says 'yes'? You don't think that the signals are clear and easy to both identity and explain?
If there are men out there like this, it would be a very good thing if they were to establish verbal consent each time.

Funnily enough, I can think of quite a few occasions where I've shared a bed with a man and even though they've indicated they'd be up for more, we've simply snogged because that's all I was comfortable with at that time and at that stage in the relationship. And the men have respected those boundaries. And I've been in the reverse situation - where I would have been happy to have sex, and the man's just wanted a snog - and I've respected his boundaries. (There have also been great occasions where we've both been up for sex and a fantastic time has been had by all). I really can't see why it should be considered so difficult. It isn't, it really, really isn't difficult, to go off body language and talk to each other - not in some sort of clinical way, but in a light, jokey, sexy way - about what you want. For once, NAMALT (shouts very loudly) and not in any sort of disparraging way, but really NAMALT. I have never come across an otherwise decent man who struggles with the concept of enthusiastic consent.

Sadly, MrsKCastle, I am increasingly starting to think that not only are there more men out there just like that, but also that they can't see anything wrong with the situation!

As an aside, can anyone link me to the data for men being more likely to be raped than falsely accused? I'd like some numbers to throw at give to my mum who often worries about false accusations.

Enthusiasm: a) "strong interest or admiration. b)"great eagerness" Source: OED.

HTH beta

i think we need force pre-nups too , and equal right`s in divorce and settlement

co habitation laws need to be banished too .

why anyone would get involved with women nowadays is beyond me

Oh good bigloads, does that mean you're going to stay away from women from now on? That would be great news.

Forced pre-nups?

Not keen really. I feel quite comfortable with sharing my wealth with DH

lol cailin kaBOSH good one

And funny cos it's true innit. A real result for womankind grin]

I mean really though it's not great is it

I want to be able to rape with impunity (bar stranger rape with excessive violence)
I don't want to have to pay for food or shelter for any children I have, if I decide I don't want to be with their mother any more, or she leaves (possibly due to point 1 above)

I mean REALLY this is a stance that some men people think is that reasonable that they write it down?

Well if there are men out there who find it annoying that women don't want to be raped then it's absolutely fantastic if those men decide to have nothing more to do with women. In fact all of women's problems could be solved if those men followed bigloads' great example.

You are a shining light in feminism bigloads. Well done.