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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminist Pub 16: where the Bluestockings develop armoured stockings to deal with the thousand paper cuts

992 replies

FibonacciSeries · 14/01/2015 12:39

Carry on.

OP posts:
PetulaGordino · 27/01/2015 13:08

re shareholders, i tell you what would be interesting (and bear in mind that i have next to no real knowledge about the finance sector so this may already exist, or there may be very good reasons why it doesn't), would be if like you have "ethical" investments/pension schemes etc, you could have an "equalities" investment/pension scheme, where investments are only made into companies that have demonstrated diversity of the workforce and/or are transparent about their payscales etc

as you say ebear a huge amount of decision-making in some sectors and companies will come down to pleasing shareholders

i have no idea how workable this is, and presumably it would need a sort of critical mass of shareholders or for one massive investment group to take on that policy, so it's probably not realistic at all

PetulaGordino · 27/01/2015 13:10

ugh sounds soul-destroying puffins Sad

buffy i would find the straight-forwardness refreshing. the problem with social niceties is that you can end up with both people being inconvenienced through trying not to inconvenience the other Wink

PenguinsandtheTantrumofDoom · 27/01/2015 13:24

Buffy- I would have found it refreshing. I hate all that 'you, no you first, no you first' bullshit but feel I have to play along.

BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 27/01/2015 13:24

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 27/01/2015 13:24

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PenguinsandtheTantrumofDoom · 27/01/2015 13:24

Bah Puffins. How frustrating

PetulaGordino · 27/01/2015 13:51

how can they get away with it puffins? it's just shocking

kickassangel · 27/01/2015 14:46

buffy - go on, complain. Then you can make a complaint about how the complaint wasn't upheld properly. Or if it is, you can re-complain about the sexist comment claiming that the difference in response is evidence that the company is more sexist than disablist. I'm sure that there will be further complaints to make after that.

OK - I have written 'complain' too much now and it has become weird. Smile

(Can you tell that I'm sitting in on an exam and bored?)

BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 27/01/2015 14:51

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UptoapointLordCopper · 27/01/2015 14:55

I have just written 4 pages boasting about my achievements. I'm exhausted. Grin Do I want to swim or should I bunk off?

UptoapointLordCopper · 27/01/2015 14:55

Buffy writes, Puffin signs. What's not to like?

Grin
BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 27/01/2015 14:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

UptoapointLordCopper · 27/01/2015 15:09

There is only one reason for boasting, and that's to get more money. Wink

FibonacciSeries · 27/01/2015 15:14

Petula, no good news yet but looking promising!

At least in investment banking, given the horrible bias against women, I'm not sure the diversity push is about the economic benefit. I bet they don't even believe the research Sad. But whatever the reason for it is, I welcome it. After 15 years of being discriminated against, I will take some positive discrimination, thankyouverymuch.

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AnnieLobeseder · 27/01/2015 15:51

Pardon me just popping in to whine..... There's a company at which I had previous applied for a job before Christmas, and got to interview and was told afterwards that my interview was excellent, and even though I didn't get the job (more experienced person got it - story of my life!) I have just the skill-set they need and please keep applying cos they really do want me to work there.

So I recently applied for another job, same department, slightly more junior than previous job, and have not even got an interview this time... blah blah blah high volume of applications blah blah blah very high standard blah blah blah!

I am finding myself surprisingly upset about it.

LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett · 27/01/2015 17:07

YY Pet and Fib one of their inclusion team said to me 'firms have been kidding themselves for years that they are true meritocracies, when they have skewed the conditions so that white men always win. That's not a meritocracy. If we want the best people in place we need to go out and recruit them now, and make sure they have the opportunity to do well here.'

I paraphrase of course (and yep, he's the inclusion guy so he would say that) but it was immensely cheering.

UptoapointLordCopper · 27/01/2015 17:24

These days I'll settle for people saying the right thing ...

kickassangel · 27/01/2015 17:36

there's load of economists who write about how truly meritocratic companies would have no bias in them at all as that is the cheapest way to ensure that wage costs are kept as low as possible. However, the history of organized labour and pay disputes demonstrates that even the workers want to collude with management to keep certain groups (women, people of color) away from equal pay, so many disputes are settled by convoluted agreements which effectively discriminate and maintain the status quo.

I've lost the details of the books I read this in (and they were BIG books from the university library, so they. were. right.) as I didn't use that info in the paper I was researching at the time.

IT always drives me mad when threads come up about equal pay and people pile in saying 'that's ridiculous, no company would be so stupid to pay a man more if they can get a woman for less'. Not only are there huge numbers of statistics proving that women get paid less, but it's just a really wantonly blind attitude to discrimination and how it works.

kickassangel · 27/01/2015 18:09

anyway - inclusion can not only open up the field to include ALL the most talented people, not just the most white male ones - but it can REALLY keep wages down and profits up. That should mean we all have a better chance of getting to the higher paid jobs but all start from a lower point, so some white men might miss out, but other people gain from it.

PuffinsAreFictitious · 27/01/2015 18:12

I won't be working here for too much longer, thankfully, and once I leave I will be doing a mahoosive and somewhat public grievance.

I have been really shocked by some of the casual sexism/racism/ablism today and in the past. It's a horrible, horrible place to work if you have any morals at all.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 27/01/2015 18:36

Crikey, puffins. Sad That's horrible.

annie - sorry, that's rotten.

YonicScrewdriver · 27/01/2015 18:40

Annie, did you go via HR or to the person durect?

I was once turned down without interview by HR, got the job fr the manager making the decision!

AnnieLobeseder · 27/01/2015 18:51

I don't know who the manager making the decision is, Yonic. I don't remember names from when I had the interview.

Though I agree it's worth pushing further up the food chain. Various recruiters refused to put my CV forward for another job, so I applied directly to the company and got an interview.

Your job sounds rubbish Puffins. Have you got something new lined up.

YonicScrewdriver · 27/01/2015 18:54

Ah, when you were turned down last time did you get any feedback from anyone? Whose name was on the letter?

AnnieLobeseder · 27/01/2015 18:57

Like I said, they said I had a valuable skill set that would be very useful to them. But the letter was from another HR person.

I have considered writing "Oi! Last time you said 'XYZ Annie is Awesome' but this time you aren't even offering an interview. Whazzup with dat shizzle?" But I fear it would make me look unhinged, and I would just get more "higher calibre of candidate this time around" brush-off and ruin any chances of ever being considered for other jobs.