Feminist Pub 16: where the Bluestockings develop armoured stockings to deal with the thousand paper cuts

[FibonacciSeries]

Carry on.

Sorry, my post wasn't clear - I meant phone feedback but I see now it was all in the letter!

When I worked for an investment bank - well, it's a while since I've worked with that many women. It was probably around 30%. (Don't know the current figures, and they've had massive organisational changes since I left.) My current department is about 10%, though that includes one woman doing an admin role rather than techy stuff.

My current employer was talking about having some sort of agreement with customers, to encourage them to promote diversity, but I don't remember the details, nor what its progress is...

Somebody or other at Davos said there is no evidence that equality brings prosperity (something in the Guardian last weekend). Seeing that we've never had equality it seems a bit difficult to prove anything ...

Well exactly lordc, and anyway, is that a good reason not to promote equality? It's like some people forget what society and te human race is when faced with a P&L. (I feel the same way about people talking about children being a lifestyle choice)

EBearHug, but those are total figures, right? Including non tech? Admittedly I've only worked for two investment banks but they are household names (one of them rather infamous in fact) and I think the figures for women in tech go something like that: 22% at graduate recruitment level, so professionals and associates, then I think it gets down to about 8% at VP level, I can't remember the ED numbers, and for managing directors...about 3%. The numbers seemed consistent across the two banks.

But I guess that because of all the support functions "traditionally" done by women (HR, admin, operations and finance) an investment bank might look more diverse than a software company!

Does anybody listen to Bridget Christie Minds The Gap on a Thursday evening? She made a joke the other week that if told by a man would be considered offensive, but told by her it was met with a SIOB then raucous laughter.

At the end of a rant against vaginoplasty, porn and why porn is to blame she said "vaginas are like snowflakes made of gammon."

I like her. Her style is wordy but not overly worthy and she makes good points and is bloody funny.

What's an SIOB. I am behind the times, clearly

annie, did you have the PhD when you applied for this one? My memory is you didn't first time around, but maybe you (just) did for this one? Because, if it's a lower ranked job and you're one qualification-level up, it might be they don't want you for that reason. Which is a real thing, intensely infuriating as it sounds.

Sucking In Of Breath is my guess, from context.

Sudden intake of breath

Annie I suspect LRD is onto something there if that's the case with your PhD. Utterly infuriating. It may also be a different hiring manager within same dept so might have no idea how well you interviewed before

Sudden intake of breath. Of course! Doh.

EBearHug, but those are total figures, right?

No - they were departmental figures for unix sys admin. Don't know the overall figures for previous employers (one investment bank, one public sector), then or now.

My current place is about 23% women overall, which is about average for tech companies - but our division (very techy) is around 8%, and it is indeed balanced out by HR being 49% (or possibly 51%.) We do have an above-average number of women execs (not that you need many to be above-average), but there's about 5 layers of men between me and the next woman in my direct line of report - plus once you're at that level, it's all US-based, so it just feels impossible most of the time.

Wow, if I worked in a department of 30% women I'd feel...weird because I'm just used to always being the only woman, but also delighted.

Yes Ebear, I used to work in a large bank and the male:female ratio was totally screwed by what we used to call the girl ghettos - HR, Communications and Retail. Their numbers would be around 70% female at a guess.

Mind you, during my ten years there, every single one of those divisions was headed by a man...

Didn't think much of it at the time, as it was my first job after uni (started as a graduate trainee.) What I have noticed in the 15 or so years since is that the numbers appear to be getting worse - the techy departments in my current company have fewer women , like the when the one female network engineer left, she wasn't replaced (headcount freeze). Nor was the one female DBA - so the place becomes more male.

I think one of the problems with the leaky pipeline is that these roles do require specific technical skills - and if you take time out (maternity or period of unemployment or whatever), it can be difficult to break back in, because you don't have the skills now being asked for, because you weren't there when everyone else was getting training.

Working for a charity, in health and social care, we're about 99% women. Men are a bit of a novelty, and quite a lot of women in my office have an annoying habit of treating them as senior, and deferring to them as such, when they actually aren't.

Mind you, during my ten years there, every single one of those divisions was headed by a man...

Yup. Our Europe HR director is a man.

See also: libraries. Not many men, but remarkably, the ones which are there will be the head librarian or department head.

Just popping in for a triple espresso as Dutch courage. I have a scary work meeting this afternoon with lots of high profile people where I have to argue against a stupid, dangerous proposal for my field of work. Stupid and dangerous but politically advantageous for a particular group, who have form for both bullying debating tactics and for obscuring matters with corporate bollocks-speak. Plus DC2 was awake loads in the night with runny nose and teething pain so I am knackered and baggy eyed. Wish me luck?

Good luck, Elisaveta!

Good luck Veta!

Thank you!

Good luck!

sending strength and steely resolve eelisaveta!