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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminist Pub 16: where the Bluestockings develop armoured stockings to deal with the thousand paper cuts

992 replies

FibonacciSeries · 14/01/2015 12:39

Carry on.

OP posts:
PetulaGordino · 26/01/2015 20:45

*her own choosing

DoctorTwo · 26/01/2015 20:48

Going back to swearing and kids: as you know, my dd2 is quite the adept at this swearing lark. :o The other weekend she introduced me to her lovely new cat (who is beryootiful btw) then launched into a rant against austerity which contained zero swears. Her grandparents were in the room at the time... :o After I'd congratulated her for her self control I told her to get involved in local politics if she felt so strongly about it.

In return I got another swear free rant about corruption. So much for the young being disinterested in politics and news.

PetulaGordino · 26/01/2015 20:53

Sorry this isn't really a feminist thing, and we have it easy really because we don't have children, but I just hate how all-consuming it is sometimes - like dragonlette he is bogged down in reports, has lots of parents' evening atm and is involved in tons of extra-curricular stuff so that involves more evening meetings and paperwork. Plus all the usual marking and planning especially as one of his colleagues isn't performing so he is doing practically the job of two people. The tipping point this week is that he is trying to apply for two vacant jobs in other schools (great ppportunities) but he barely has the fucking time to actually complete tr applications. I recently changed jobs as I was working 2hrs away and we barely saw each other. But now I'm home and we can't spend time together either! Weekends I'm occupying myself while he is at a desk all day, and I can do that perfectly well and see friends etc but it is a bit lonely

Since christmas he has basically worked every day including weekends until about 10pm and I miss him. Things won't get better at half term because he will be on a school trip, so he won't get a break and I have to live with him exhausted and ill in the weeks before Easter (happens every year)

Sorry for mega-whinge and I jnow it's not really that bad, it's just that I want to fix it for him and I can't

DemisRoussos · 26/01/2015 21:15

That sounds really tough Petula. I am a school governor and the workload of the staff at our school is incredible. Especially as they have to be so enthusiastic and patient in the classroom, which must be so hard when you are dead tired.

PetulaGordino · 26/01/2015 21:48

Thanks Demis - it's not really as tough as it could be because I actually do (with my new job) have the time to support him and as I said we don't have children

But we want children, and I have ambitions too, and I'm watching him do what seem to be basic requirements for anyone who wants to succeed in the teaching profession (and yes, he wants to become part of SLT, and he almost certainly will through both his hard work and the fact that he very much fits the mould of what a senior teacher should be). And perhaps this is pessimistic but I can already see how my career could easily slide into being required to fit in with the requirements of his job, especially if we have children (and neither of us is likely to be a very high earner) regardless of the fact that neither of us think it should have to be like that. He's not selfish and he feels guilty about how much he has to work, but the whole system seems to rely on good teachers' sense of responsibility to their pupils which means that it subsumes everything else

Boo hoo I know, and who knows what will come to pass, but it's been one of those evenings where I listened and sympathised for half and hour with DP complaining about yet another responsibility that has been dumped on him, and then spent the rest of the evening on my own

talkingofmichaelangelo · 26/01/2015 21:56

Goddess bless all in this house Wine Wine Brew

DoctorTwo, your daughter sounds ace.

Petula, that sounds really hard.

Dragonlette, does anyone read the reports before they go out? Or can you just go with the flow? :)

YonicScrewdriver · 26/01/2015 22:11

Inauguration of first female bishop in UK today Smile

PetulaGordino · 26/01/2015 22:14

Yes that was a Good Thing Smile

PuffinsAreFictitious · 26/01/2015 22:15

Petula, that does sound incredibly tough. You're completely justified in having a kvetch about it. I have no advice, but will shake my fist ineffectually at the way that teachers are pushed to the limits, if they are any good.

LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett · 26/01/2015 22:51

Quite chuffed about the woman bishop today.

Also I am doing some work for a company who I shouldn't mention, and I'm working at a high level so have no idea what life is like on the shop floor but OMG they are taking inclusion seriously and putting great policies in place to drive real action. I'm v impressed.

(Can't name because of fear of outing, confidentiality agreement and also complete certainty that if I name them, someone will come on and say 'No Lonny, they're shit in rl.') Grin

Dragonlette · 26/01/2015 23:09

Petula, that sounds about right for good teachers at this time of year. Since Christmas we've had year 11 mocks, year 11 reports to write, year 9 reports now, sixth form mocks, parents' evening this week and anothe one next week. I'm also going on a school trip this year, but it's been put back to Easter because those of us who went last year during Feb half term were too knackered when we came back having had no break (the kids too). I'm exhausted and feeling disillusioned, even though I love the actual teaching bit in the classroom, and I don't even have any additional responsibilities, and no desire to take on any sort of management role.

Michaelangelo unfortunately yes, someone on SMT reads all the reports and we get emails telling us what we've done wrong. So I can't write what I really want to about some pupils, I need to be diplomatic.

PetulaGordino · 26/01/2015 23:21

Flowers dragonlette it does seem just relentless at the moment - I'll just keep holding out for after summer exams and then duke of Edinburgh starts

DemisRoussos · 26/01/2015 23:42

I'm sorry Petula, I replied to you without really reflecting on how you are affected by the situation. It sounds really tough for you too.

PetulaGordino · 26/01/2015 23:45

no no - it's harder for the actual teachers, you're right - but that's why I'm selfishly blrting it all out here rather than in RL!

kickassangel · 27/01/2015 01:03

Yes, I remember it being like that in the UK. Add in being in a school which was appallingly badly run (when I left my job was just given to a less qualified, experienced and able boy man rather than offered to any of the many excellent female staff because, you know, penis). I also had DD (age 5, spectrum kid), and, believe it or not, DH working longer hours/travelling a lot. And a high percentage of the kids were really antagonistic, goaded on by anti-education, anti-teachers parents.

After I left, just before we moved to the US, I went back to visit my old form group. I had a serious sweating palms, heart thumping moment just driving into the place. I hadn't realized how very stressed I was until I left.

Sometimes teaching is a bit like banging your head against a brick wall - great when it stops! (and it's supposed to be a 'soft' option for women to do- pah)

kickassangel · 27/01/2015 01:35

In fact, there is a very real argument, that teaching is seen as a predominantly female (or at least typical female role) profession - you know, taking care of kids - so it's OK to pile on endless shit work. I used to tell trainees that it was like housework/raising kids - it is never done. There's always one more thing you could be doing. That's a big psychological stumbling block to get round if you ever want any family time.

PetulaGordino · 27/01/2015 07:56

It all sounds very familiar kickass. And it's the conscientiousness of good teachers that is relied on really to do the extra work because they (management, government) know that teachers will not let the children's education suffer. It's the same with nursing, social work, all those caring professions that are traditionally associated with women. And SAHPdom too as you say - like Cailin's thread at the moment, it's that thing of knowing that "if I don't do it no one else will and it's the children who will suffer"

UptoapointLordCopper · 27/01/2015 09:32

One of my friends have just started teaching. The workload seems overwhelming and unreasonable. Sad Angry

talkingofmichaelangelo · 27/01/2015 09:42

Dragonlette, that is a pity! And piles on the pressure too - you must feel a little under scrutiny even as you plough through them all.

FibonacciSeries · 27/01/2015 10:21

Lonny, I don't know what's going on but recently diversity seems to be the name of the game out there. The last time I was chased so much as a woman in tech was in 2006 when the banks just couldn't hire people quickly enough. This time round, I don't think it's that they have that many jobs. Seems to me that they are worried a quota for the C suites might be put in place for, say, 2020, and they want to start populating the pipeline.

OP posts:
PetulaGordino · 27/01/2015 10:46

V interesting fib, and good news I hope?

I have talked about this before, but a Swedish oncologist I spoke to a few years ago said that when quotas came in for them it meant they made sure their pipeline was filled with talented women precisely because they didn't want the quality to drop - the mentorship and development that had been predominantly and routinely doled out to men became more consciously available to women because of it. And they didn't find a shortage of talented women either, they just hadn't been looking before. A different industry obviously so a higher proportion of women working in it to start with

BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 27/01/2015 12:49

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

EBearhug · 27/01/2015 12:59

I think there's a mix of things - as I may have mentioned a mere 3456321 times (although that includes in other places online and at work and in person,) I was at a BBC Women in Tech event on Friday - they have about 150 vacancies to fill by next year, and they said they're struggling to fill them - the skills they want just aren't out there in enough numbers. They are particularly targetting women, because it's harder to get women to apply - all the stuff about women only applying if they match 80% of the spec and so on. They've also seen that different job titles on the same job spec make a difference to the number of women which apply.

I think also there is a bit of an increase in tech vacancies anyway, plus we do have a general issue with the skills requirements in tech - a lot of roles do need specific skills, which means that someone somewhere needs to offer training, but recruiting companies usually hope it's someone else doing it, unless it's a graduate scheme or similar.

But as well as all that, diversity is very much flavour of the month, and unconscious bias in particular, from what I see. The risk of future C-suite quotas is probably only a small factor; I think with my employers, it's responding to reports that more diverse workforces is generally positively reflected in profits - and in the end, shareholder value is what they care about. I'm under no illusion that if some research proved white male-dominated companies perform better, all the inclusive policies would be out the window.

(Have to say in my tech role, enquiries from recruitment agents are fairly steady, but development roles tend to be more prone to the economic climate - you have to keep existing hardware running, but you can hold off development of software updates for a while.)

PuffinsAreFictitious · 27/01/2015 13:06

Don't worry about it Buffy. Being the odd parent is fine, comfortable in fact. I revelled in it.

Today I am mostly stuck in a training module I've already done before trying to think of ways not to bite the trainer who has been especially chosen for his monotone speaking voice and lack of anything approaching a sense of humour. Diversity is also low down the priorities, given that he's just spent 20 minutes telling us that it's easier to not hire people with LDs by implying that they will be unable to do the job or will masturbate on the shop floor. I'm. It even going to complain, the last sexist prick I complained about (be careful of takin on women of breeding age, they'll just get pregnant and be off sick all the time) I was told he was just joking and I needed to lighten up.

I can't wait to be able to shake the dust from my sandals.

PuffinsAreFictitious · 27/01/2015 13:08

Sorry, whining.

And I meant I'm not even going to bother.....