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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Shia LeBouf rape,sexism at its fineist.

154 replies

FayKorgasm · 28/11/2014 07:31

My facebook is full articles about Shias rape. I am so sorry he went through this. However not one article mentions his clothing at the time,alcohol consumption,past partners,whether he knew the person. Not even "rape" or alledged rape. Pick up any article about a woman talking about her rape and it is full of what she was wearing etc.
Fucking deprressing really.

OP posts:
DrinkFeckArseGirls · 02/12/2014 15:01

He could have attempted to stop it, he didn't, he chose to continue with the performance. The performance was to let anyone do to him what they wanted. He pre-agreed to it.

BuffytheFestiveFeminist · 02/12/2014 15:02

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MyEmpireOfDirt · 02/12/2014 15:07

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MyEmpireOfDirt · 02/12/2014 15:07

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YonicScrewdriver · 02/12/2014 15:13

Well put, MEOD.

If someone had come in and, I dunno, taken off his watch and taken it away, it would still be theft.

CoolStoryBro · 02/12/2014 15:13

But in this particular case, I think we should be examining his actions! Because there's a whole world of argument that by him saying he was raped has a very negative impact on the very real experiences and perceptions of women rape victims.

Although, I will admit a total bias as, having met him, I think Shia Leboeuf is a bit of a dick! Grin

YonicScrewdriver · 02/12/2014 15:15

Bro, I don't think he has many 'not a dick' supporters on here.

I don't think he is having a negative impact on female rape victims?

Wishtoremainunknown · 02/12/2014 15:18

Even if he didn't pre agree he chose to continue with the performance.

Wishtoremainunknown · 02/12/2014 15:19

As it seems. I haven't seen anything to suggest otherwise. Yet.

DrinkFeckArseGirls · 02/12/2014 15:19

The idea of the (frankly stupid) performance was that anyone can come in and do anything they want to him. She did that. I'm not condoning her actions and I'm not minimising how he feels about it, but there was no small print to say, no sex please. I'm thinking he hadn't thought that would have happened but when it started he had a chance to at least attempt to stop it. He chose to continue, he didn't express his 'no'.

MyEmpireOfDirt · 02/12/2014 15:20

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FlossyMoo · 02/12/2014 15:21

But he didn't say yes either.

MyEmpireOfDirt · 02/12/2014 15:22

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MyEmpireOfDirt · 02/12/2014 15:23

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BeyondTheTreelights · 02/12/2014 15:26

I agree it was a stupid performance. But i'm not an artistic type, perhaps i just dont get it.

But what kind of person has sex on (not with!) someone who is just sat there with their head covered. If someone had come in, anaesthetised him and stole a kidney, after all he 'preconsented' by way of his performance.

If that were true (which i dont believe it is) it still doesnt make the person taking advantage of that any less fucked up

DrinkFeckArseGirls · 02/12/2014 15:42

Just for the record I'd be saying the same if the 'artist' Hmm was a woman.

Beating someone up is illegal but if you like that and give permission (in bedroom) to be beaten up, is that still a crime?

FloraFox · 02/12/2014 15:43

I don't believe what happened to Shia Laboeuf was rape because I don't believe sexual assault by a woman on a man should be classified as rape. In his circumstances it seems he was physically assaulted (he said she whipped his legs for 10 minutes) then sexually assaulted. Consent isn't an issue for the physical assault though it is an issue for the sexual assault. As MEOD says, consent has to be specific, not generally given (although a woman would be almost certainly raped if she did the same thing and can you imagine how she would be treated by the press and court of public opinion).

As far as I can see, it's not clear why Shia Laboeuf seemingly did nothing while she whipped him and then sexually assaulted him. His team said they stopped her as soon as they became aware and sent her out.

I am not comfortable with the comparison of this incident with women's responses to rape. The rape myths addressed by the We Believe You campaign are highly specific to women, the way we are socialised to be the gatekeepers of sex but also to accommodate men:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/a2246812-Shia-LeBouf-rape-sexism-at-its-fineist?msgid=51071324

Bidisha wrote about the myth that if women didn't struggle or fight back it wasn't rape:

www.mumsnet.com/bloggers/bust-rape-myth-bidisha

I agree with everything she said but I see that as a combination of very rational fear of physical violence together with shock and also socialisation and not knowing how to respond to a violation.

It seems a natural question to ask why a person does nothing while they are being assaulted however we can see through women sharing their experiences that we understand why women don't fight back and we shouldn't question any particular woman about how she responded to a rape (although the police do). We know that by asking this question when a woman has been assaulted, she feels shame and responsibility so we shouldn't ask. I agree the onus should be on the rapists' behaviour.

I have no idea why a man wouldn't react though. They are not subject to socialisation that they should provide sex to women, nor that they should fear violence from women. I accept that they are socialised that a man would take sex from any woman who offers (not the same thing though). They are not told they provoke rape by their clothes, that a strange woman might attack them at night or that men often lie about rape.

This makes me uncomfortable with an expectation that the principles of the We Believe You campaign should apply to men. I don't think, for example, that a man allowing himself to be whipped for 10 minutes then sexually assaulted for the sake of artistic integrity (of maintaining silence and passivity during the performance) should in any way be compared with the experience of women who are raped by men. I don't know if that is what happened but it seems to be a reasonable possibility.

MyEmpireOfDirt · 02/12/2014 15:46

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FrauHelgaMissMarpleandaChuckle · 02/12/2014 15:49

The case is R v Brown. You cannot consent to assault. Covers particularly BDSSM activities, specifically sadomasochist activities between gay men.

Unless, of course, you're a wife, and married, in which situation the case is R v Wilson.

MyEmpireOfDirt · 02/12/2014 15:50

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FrauHelgaMissMarpleandaChuckle · 02/12/2014 15:50

sorry - if you are a wife, and married to the person who is committing the assault, then you have the ability to consent.

The law is sexist. And discriminatory.

MyEmpireOfDirt · 02/12/2014 15:52

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FloraFox · 02/12/2014 16:13

MEOD I agree with you. My difficult is that if it was shock, I would be hugely sympathetic but if it is artistic integrity I would be angered by his behaviour now.

I can see shock arising from socialisation of believing they can't be raped but not fear.

Our culture around rape of women by men is part of and contributes to oppression of women individually and as a class as well as being an individual crime and a huge violation of bodily integrity and trust. I am sympathetic towards men who might be sexually assaulted on the individual level but I am wary of any attempt to co-opt those aspects that relate to women's oppression and specifically to co-opt women's subjugation as a class and turn it around as something men can use against women. My spidey senses are tingling here on that front.

King1982 · 02/12/2014 16:13

I think this is a unique scenario but rape can still occur with in it.
I'm a man that has been raped. I woke up to an acquaintance (woman) having sex with me. I put a stop to it as soon as I realised what was happening by rolling them to the side. I didn't report it. I only told a handful of people, both male and female friends. The general reaction was that I was a lucky devil. I don't think I will ever report it, it was a fairly long time ago. I was very confused about the whole incident. Conflicted about how I should feel about it. Luckily at the time I was already seeing a councillor for a bereavement, this helped massively.

prashad · 02/12/2014 17:03

Sorry to hear about your rape, King1982. I know many many men who have been raped in the same way, and traumatised by it.

Unfortunately, the law is sexist and discriminates against men in this regard.

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