Feminist Pub 14: The Bluestocking, a place for feminist chat and feminists to chat

[YonicScrewdriver]

Welcome!

This is the 14th incarnation of the Pub and is meant as a place to drop by with random thoughts and meandering chats, on feminist or other related themes. Anything you want to mull over but not necessarily start a thread about. Alternatively, flop onto the chaise lounges with some

We have a pub goat, a feminist cannon for firing at crazy sexists and a variety of drinks and snacks. And stools/bar counters at female friendly heights. And a crèche in the back somewhere

Will link the last pub in the next post!

So they are shit and stupid.

I want to shake all these so-called nice men and tell them...

Gosh LordC, I want to do a lot more than that - I want to give them a verbal lashing that they will likely never recover from, which will leave them cowering and scarred for life. But I need an income as well

"I want to shake all these so-called nice men and tell them that they are all shit underneath and they don't even know it"

That's essentially what I've (unintentionally) done to my DH LordCopper. It's been weird but also interesting (in a difficult, emotional way) to see him come to terms with his own behaviour and to see how off his attitudes have been. He's said a number of times "I believed myself to be a good guy, but I see now I wasn't. I can't believe my attitude, I can't believe what I've done." It's been extremely hard for him. I can see why other men resist it so much.

I said to DH too that we call these people "nice" when they have sexist opinions towards women when we would not have called them "nice" if they held racists opinions. Because women don't matter.

upto I actually won a copy of that book on MN for submitting a picture of DS!

DH is a good guy, and always open to learning and reflection, and has battled a lot of gender stereotypes and had his own struggles with what masculinity really means, and sometimes he still just doesn't get it.

I guess nobody understands everything, and it took me years before seeing clearly how things are, but it's the "yeah but no but" attitude that is the difference, I suppose.

hoppy That's a great book. V. comforting.

He's said a number of times "I believed myself to be a good guy, but I see now I wasn't. I can't believe my attitude, I can't believe what I've done."

Awareness is such a difficult battle, is he struggling with it a great deal cailin? It can be hard to manage those moments of awareness when the realisation hits you. Many, many people hide the truth from themselves, because seeing the reality of a situation would rock the very foundations of their world. It is much easier for them to manage their lies to themselves, than to face the truth that would benefit them so, so, so much more.

Question for you all. On threads about gender neutrality in toys or books, there are always people who push back against not labeling things 'for girls' or 'for boys' on the grounds that it doesn't matter. But if it doesn't matter to them, why do they care so much that other people to whom it does matter do something about it? I mean no one is trying to take their toys away or prevent them buying stuff. Can any of you explain this to me?

Dunno, Artifex. The only answer I've ever seen given is "well it will take me a whole extra minute to do my online Christmas shopping for my granddaughter if I actually have to search out the pink glittery shit amid the khaki violent shit without having a one click button which will do that search for me." Apparently this is more important than me being able to do my Christmas shopping and buy a toy castle for great niece and nephew which contains both male and female characters.

Oh, and I suppose there's always the risk that their sons will catch "the gay" from a lego set which includes a female minifigure, or worse still, that their daughters will grow up into hairy, dungaree wearing lesbian feminists if they inadvertently buy them a toy train.

I don't know either.

The only "reason" I can think of is this: Well, my daughter/son is a proper girl/boy and this is what she/he likes! It works for us (and therefore for all right-thinking people). It's natural FGS. Stop fighting nature! You are doing them a disservice because this is what all their peers (which of course consist only of people of the same sex) like - you don't want them left out or bullied!

Still doesn't explain anything though ... It's a mystery.

Yes he is Zazzles. He is finding it hard to square his sexist attitudes and his shit actions as a partner with his previous idea of himself as a good man and a decent husband.
He is being very accepting of my criticisms of his behaviour but it's tough going for him, obviously, as, like you say, it's very very difficult to confront negative things about yourself, it's far easier to believe a lie.

I'm pleased to hear your update cailindana, it sounds like your DH is willing to try, which is so important. Also to you for being so brilliant on the rape apology thread.

He is definitely willing EE, but it's a tough struggle and I'm not sure we'll make it as a couple.

Thank you and thank you also for your brilliance

That's really good news Cailin, that he's given his head a solid wobble. I hope he sees it as a starting point for him to become less of a twat.

Cor lummey, there's a lot of rape apology going on, isn't there? I'm amazed they want to 'speak their truth' in such a vile fashion....

Did anyone else complain to the BBC about Nick Conrad and get a complete non-apology about it? I nearly applied for a job in their complaints department recently. Glad I didn't bother, I don't think I could live with myself peddling such nonsense.

I have checked out of the rape threads as just too upsetting. I know I'm letting the side down though

No you're not Petula. No one in their right mind would say you have to engage with these idiots at the expense of your own wellbeing. I get plenty of days where I'm just not up to the fight.

I agree too. I have had it up to fucking here with victim blaming and also the feminist hate. Might limit myself to the pub and Annie's thread for a while.

I had my wobble yesterday and am up for the argument again now too. Katee I complained on Zazzle's principle that they assume every complaint equals nine more dissatisfied people - haven't even had a non reply yet though.

it's not even personally triggering for me as i have no direct personal experience of actual rape, i just get terribly upset, which is why i feel i'm letting the side down, because there are plenty of women for whom it is personally triggering and i'm not there for them right now

what is annie's thread?