Female body hair / husband- help?

[wishfulthinking1]

Since the birth of my son I've considered feminist issues much more deeply- particularly inspired by 'hair:not the musical', I've begun considering hair removal as a choice- and have chosen not to at the the moment.

My lovely husband (and he really is lovely) is struggling with this- says he doesn't find it attractive / is embarrassed when we go swimming etc- he doesn't mean to be ignorant, but he's really struggling with it.

I'm trying to find something for him to read that could help him get his head around it. Most internet searches come up with articles along the lines of 'eww, gross, if your partner loved you, she'd shave blah blah'.

Does anyone have any advice?
Thanks

Fakebook: it isnt whether or not you have seen porn, it is that so many others have that the porn standards have become the societal standard. Though I think high fashion is as much to do with it, and that industry is full of gay men making decisions about what women should look like, so we may be blaming the wrong men! You shaved everywhere because you had already been taught that was normal.

It wasnt normal when I was 13, and although many women my age have embraced the changing standards, when we started, it was shins and pits, unless your thighs were very noticeably hairy, then you did those too. I recall discussions at slumber parties over the issue of shaving above the knee and thigh hair comparisons to judge who maybe should. Pubic hair was on a strictly if exposed basis, which in those days meant the top edge if your parents let you wear a really low cut bikini, and your upper thighs maybe. There was no expectation of trimming pubes for appearances sake re: a big date or your wedding, unless either of those involved a bathing suit.

Penfold: my sister!

My lack of visible arm hair incensed a younger woman with the no body hair standard. She asked, incredulously, if i waxed my arms. I said i just wasnt very hairy, so she pulled up my trouser leg. I hadnt shaved recently, but compared to her own in need of shaving legs, mine were bald!

Momagain we are indeed sisters. I find much of the 'hairy' stuff really hard.

There are millions of people in the world who also remove Pubic hair for religious and cultural reasons. You can't tell a Muslim man or woman that the effect of porn on society is the reason they remove their pubes.

Penfold - your mentioning your grandmother reminds me of a story my late mum told me about how her mother and her friends (this was in Palestine in the 1930s) used to have a sugaring lady who would come round to someone's house, and all the women would gather round and have hot toffee poured on their legs, and the hair ripped off. Mum said they all used to shriek in pain. So while it's a new thing, it's not all that new.

Colette describes a woman getting her masseuse to tweeze the hair from her legs in one of her novels - it might be Cheri? - in the 1920s.

Obviously not fakebook. It's cultural and socialised as you have said. As is hair removal in Western cultures

It's not an innate urge - it is learned. And more women do it than men. Which says something about what we as a society are taught is "normal"

Amethyst what a wonderful family history but so painful. Ouch hot toffee on delicate parts.

no one who thinks that hair removal is worth discussing from a feminist POV is implying that women should naturally have lots of body hair in order to be real women. That's ridiculous and insulting. It's about considering why so many women make choices in terms of hair removal that men don't, not about how much hair you have in the first place. No one should be on the receiving end of negative comments about their bodies

Ouch indeed! But sugaring is apparently less painful than waxing. Mum was a little girl then and what she remembered best was the delicious smell, bless her.

As a woman who hasn't removed hair for a good number of years I am not dirty, smelly or devoid of sex.

When I began my avoidance of the razor I felt very unsure of my decision, I felt I should shave, that people would be disgusted and judgemental. But the more time that went on the less fucks I gave of what other people thought of my body.

No, I would tell a Muslim woman who removes all her body hair that it's because of one of the edicts of her faith. So not a free choice (I was reliably informed). Did you want to bolster my point?

Plus of course, you remove your hair for cultural reasons. Porn culture is the reason, whether you've watched it or not.

Last post.... Sorry, stupid iPad randomly posts things I don't want it to.... Like of course further up

Real women come in all shapes and sizes, with or without body hair. All feminists ask is that women look at why they do certain practices that men don't do and look at the inequalities behind them. Shave, don't shave, but don't tell me that shaving happens in a cultural vacuum.

Shall we return to the OP?

Puffins, I thought that "of course" was directed at me in a snippy and dismissive way, therefore I ignored it in a dignified fashun as befits a laydee

I do entirely accept that the reason I have all my pubic hair waxed off is because of porn. If there wasn't the fashion for it created by porn, there'd be no waxing people who knew how to do it, apart from anything else. However, that said, I find it more comfortable under clothes and I enjoy sex more. On a political level, as I've said, I'm not comfortable with that. But unlike the OP, I'm choosing to put preference before principle on this one.

It's not a feminist choice, but as least I know that.

I do find men with facial hair quite icky. Scratchy and bits of food put me off!
It is a school rule that the older boys have to be clean shaven.

I think that one of the reasons for more women shaving, is the improved quality of hair removal systems. I have very fine almost transparent leg hair so have never needed to shave for my legs to look hairless. I remember shaving with a bic razor as a teen, but hating the stubbly feel so didn't bother that much. These days, with my epliator, my legs feel fantastic hairless. I can't see the difference, but the feel is the reason I do it.
I scrub the rough skin off my feet because I like the feel of it, not because there is a society pressure to have soft feet. No one ever sees my feet (I never wear sandals or flip-flops).

There's no such thing as a "feminist choice." It is entirely possible to remove every body hair and still be a feminist. Feminism isn't about telling women what to do. It's about understanding the choices we make. In this case the OP feels the need not to shave but is meeting resistance, from her partner and from her own sense of what's acceptable. The feminist discussion centres around the causes of that resistance. The individual choice about whether to remove hair or not is not up for debate - that's entirely up to each woman. We want to examine exactly why women struggle with something that should be a simple decision.

I almost find it more insulting that peoples on this thread are insinuating that the only reason I shave my legs, armpits and pubic area is because I've been brainwashed by porn. That is not the case! My partner has never even mentioned hair, it's my who tells him to trim up his public hair and shave his facial hair! And that's not because of porn, that's because I find kissing a beard itchy and I don't find giving oral sex very nice with a mouth full of pubic hair. I shave myself because I like the smoothness. If suddenly porn went back to having hairy women in "fashion" a) I wouldn't start leaving myself hairy because I don't like the feeling and b) I wouldn't know anyway because I don't watch porn!

Those of you who choose not to shave seem to think the world thinks you're some sort of freak for not shaving, when in reality I honestly think the majority of people couldn't give 2 hoots. You're always going to get the odd idiot with an opinion, but surely that's the case with literary everything in life - whether you're a man or a woman. I have never ever discussed shaving (or lack of) with any of my friends and I have never been told to shave.

There is some evidence that the trend towards shaved vulvas came from the medicalisation of childbirth. Where once women would have given birth in private at home, from the 20s onwards it became common to go to hospital, where you would be shaved and have an enema. It was believed at the time and up until the 80s that shaving was necessary for hygiene during childbirth.

No one is suggesting anyone told you to shave Blueberry. But you didn't come up with the idea entirely on your own.

it doesn't sound like that to me, more like the proliferation of waxing salons and the demand for them has increased in keeping with the ever more accessible porn, just sort of infiltrating and informing our choices far less directly

but am not wholly persuaded it is that simple, it's a two way street and porn reflects what's going on in society - not really thinking of minge fur here as much as our relative worth and role

it's not necessarily the reason, or the only reason, why you depilate pubic hair, but it may be one reason why other people do, or why it has become more prevalent in recent years. you don't have to have direct experience of cultural/social changes yourself for what is seen as "normal" to permeate through to your own preferences. there may be lots of other reasons, many of which have been brought up on this thread

if you don't think it's worth exploring why more women do this than men, then that's fine. it's not compulsory. but many feminists do find it useful to explore this. it's a bit daft of you to take such personal offence; many women on this thread, myself included, depilate and do so acknowledging that the socialisation and external influence drives us to see this as more desirable, that smooth is more comfortable, more acceptable etc

that was to blueberry, sorry

Cailindana, I'm curious, do you get hair cuts?

Yes Blueberry

I find it odd how when women say they shave through personal choice, they're being told, no it's because they've been influenced by a society to do it. I think its really patronising and almost manipulative to keep telling someone the same thing over again like they don't know their own mind! I'd like to think women know exactly what they want/like in this day and age without being brainwashed at a subconcious level into doing things. So when women say they shave because they like the feeling/it's smooth, it really is that. There's no reason to belittle her thoughts and tell her she's wrong.