37 year old man here

[BlueStahli]

Hello,

I'm a 37 year old male, married, with two children--a boy and a girl.

I've always had an issue with sexism. But only recently have I been delving headlong into it. I've been researching facts and studies, talking to people, getting opinions, and voicing my own views. In the process, I stumbled across this site. So I joined. I hope to learn much here. Needless to say, I'll be spending most of my time hanging out in the feminism forum.

My reasons for being here are three-fold:

1. I want facts! I want to know how sexism and discrimination have been measured/studied scientifically and what results have been found. I want to know what kinds of government policies and human rights have been instated (or removed) and where in the world this has happened. I'm tired of anecdotal stories and questioning how biased people's claims are and I feel I'm ready to take a position on more secure grounds--but I need to build those grounds first.

2. I feel I can contribute much to feminism by offering a man's perspective. I wear my heart of my sleeve and I'm not afraid to reveal personal information. But I also feel that if I'm going to give my perspective on certain issues, I'm going to have to earn the right to do it first (so you won't get it in my first post :)). I'm confident that I can do this in a constructive/non-offensive way, and if I ever do step out of line (never advertently), I'm open to being corrected. Ultimately, I feel that if two groups are trying to settle their differences, there's no better way than to hear the perspectives on both sides.

3. I've got issues! :) I really do! Like I said, I've always had issues with sexism, and lately I've been on a self-induced "therapy kick". I've been forcing myself to "get over it". Diving into the issue with other peopleother womenis how I'm doing it. I don't think I'll ever be "cured" of my issues, but if I'm going to be stuck with them, I figure I might as well have them for the right reasons (i.e. educating myself--as in #1 above).

So that's my spiel.

So first order of business: I'd like to ask if there are any males on this forum--particularly ones that frequent the feminism forum. I'd like to ask their advice on how a man conducts himself on a forum devote to moms and feminism.

Thanks :)

Why not try starting a thread about an actual issue - link to an article you've seen in the news, say what you think about it, ask others what you think about it.

This thread will go badly because it's all about you.

It's not customary to introduce oneself on MN (as you'll see if you look about - we tend to just get stuck in, so an introductory "this is what I want out of being here" post sounds rather self-centred.

Hugely demanding.

"I want to know how sexism and discrimination have been measured/studied scientifically and what results have been found." Well first of all science isn't the be all and end all. Feminism springs from the lived experiences of women and if you can't accept that then you aren't going to get very far. And secondly scientific studies will have a patriarchal basis because we live in a patriarchal society. Why are you so keen to have 'scientific' evidence (whatever that is)?

Why do you feel you can offer much to feminism? In fact why do think we need a man's perspective?

And what do mean by "I've always had issues with sexism"?

Probably best to just read and join in (when appropriate) with other threads. There isn't a need to introduce yourself and have your own thread to demand facts and stats.

You can do your own research, although there are usually plenty of links on appropriate threads.

It's not fair to ask we put aside bias or anything not statistically proven...the issues discussed are our lives and experiences, you can chose to disbelieve anything you don't consider proven fact but a lot of the stuff posted is personal, biased but very important. If you aren't willing to listen to it, then there's no point you being here.

i wish there were a forum where all these enthusiastic protofeminist men could congregate & not clog up the boards here with demands to be educated, be catered to or otherwise center themselves at the expense of women working to liberate themselves from patriarchy

actually, i will go find you one- please do not post again until i return

What scallops said.

Yes, if you want 'hard evidence' there's a wealth of statistics out there regarding how many women are victims of rape/sexual assault/domestic violence/harassment along with those regarding the pay gap, percentage of women in executive posts vs men.

However, (and not to dismiss any of the above issues) feminism is about much more than that. What you call 'anecdotes' is our real lives, those little, almost unnoticed, bits of our everyday lives which grind you down and make being a woman that little bit harder.

If you're not interested in those anecdotes the you are dismissing a huge part of feminism and, basically proving you are sexist because you so easily write off our experiences.

Yes, there are men on FWR - hang around and you'll spot them. If you want advice from them on how to conduct yourself on here, maybe observe their various styles and see which might work for you.

If you haven't read it already, "Delusions of Gender" by Cordelia Fine may be a good start.

Oh, and what Trills said.

THIS is why Buffy's Basic Feminism Sticky would be invaluable.

I'm sure you're sincere, Blue, but your OP does come across as being quite demanding. Feminism is a political ideology, so, while there is research, it's not empirically verifiable as a physics experiment would be, it's more of a social science iyswim?

I would endorse the people who suggest you read and digest, speak to women you know about the issues they have, look at the everyday feminism/sexism websites. Read blogs. There's lots of books as well which serve as primers.

By the way, OP, assuming you are straight, would you post similarly about scientific evidence and representing both sides of the debate on a site primarily used by gay men, in a board on that site which focussed on discussing homophobia?

If not, why not?

BlueStahli - I'm a man, and I read this forum, but have never contributed. This is the first time I've felt that my input might be relevant.

Sadly (genuinely sadly, for many reasons) I don't think that there's much that you can 'contribute to feminism by offering a man's perspective', certainly not here. In fact by trying to do so you're ignoring the fact that men's perspectives never have a problem being heard, and by adding yet another you're simply perpetuating that. You will also really piss people off.

As others have said, there is a ton of empirical stuff out there about inequality - but it is most important to listen and to try and understand what that actually means in real life. You and I won't ever have experienced any of that, other than second-hand or tangentially. So rather than asking to be educated here, go and read - for example - The Everyday Sexism Project. Keep reading, and reading, until you feel sick or numb or whatever.

everydaysexism.com

Then, when you've done that, don't come here and tell everyone that you're a convert and a feminist. Go and talk to other men about it. Bend their ears. It is the behaviour of men that needs to change, and it is men that need to make those huge changes.

Nice post, falafel.

What falafal said!

Agreed.

why do you feel we may need a male perspective

we get this already, every day its all around us

"I want facts! I want to know how sexism and discrimination have been measured/studied scientifically and what results have been found."

Thing is there are so many different areas so you might want to narrow it down to one. People do have lots of resources here. You say you don't want anecdotes but when anecdotes come in their thousands that's as good as evidence I would say. To that end I would look up everyday sexism.

One area that has had a lot of proven research is "stereotype threat" - the theory that the more a person is made aware of a stereotype the more their performance is affected by it, a type of self-fulfilling prophecy. Google it, there's loads on it.

Best of luck.

Everyday Sexism is a website by the way!

Yeah every single fucking day men telling us what to do, why we are wrong, paranoid, sex objects etc

No wonder feminism feels so defensive

Yeah, what falafel said. Also, asking is to find all the data for you is a tad...lazy.

I'd go so far as to say a tad entitled, BecauseIsaidS0

Freudian, I'm happy to have a male perspective, as long as that person is happy to listen and not to tell us that we shouldn't feel what we do in fact feel.

Applauds Falafel

Not sure we need a male perspective. We get that every minute of every day.

You come across as very 'me, me, me'.

oops. x-post with loads