Why are feminists so threatened by the MRA movement?

[LaVoixDeLaRaison]

When I was at university, the Gender Equality society (of which I was a member) chose to rename itself the Feminist society, arguing that the only way equality could be achieved was by focusing on women's issues. This led some other students to set up an MRA group, which was met with some resistance from the feminists. On this very board I see commenters angrily referring to MRAs as if they are all members of an evil homogeneous group.

Isn't it possible that men and women both suffer oppression from society in different ways? That the levels of this oppression are not necessarily equal, but are still important if we are to achieve equality? I often see feminists agreeing with certain 'male issues' (e.g. media stereotypes, elevated male suicide rate), but suggesting that feminism has other priorities, and if they want to do something about these issues then they should make their own groups. Why do they get criticized when they do exactly that? Better still, wouldn't feminism be better off if it didn't alienate so many men (and women, focused on a wider range of issues, and stopped pitting the sexes against one another?

Are you a Richard Dawkins fan, OP?

So, no apology to the women who have taken time to set you right using their extensive academic muscles then? Just a hand wringing post about how very jolly clever these other people and how you couldn't possibly be expected to know that other people are clever too? Yup, says it all about your view of women.

You say that we can't tell who is a feminist. I pre-empted that assertion, which, magically I knew you would make, by suggesting how you can tell if someone is one or not. You're not a feminist either, you have far too low an opinion of women, feminism is about loving women and liberating them from patriarchy. There are male feminists/feminist allies who post here regularly, you aren't one of them.

You want legal ways that women are discriminated against? Ok. The abortion act 1967, which states that women only have bodily autonomy and can be trusted to make decisions about their bodies until an arbitrary time stamp in a pregnancy. There's one. There are others.

You haven't suggested alternatives though OP? To the issues men face that may not be part of the patriarchy? You are saying they may not be part of the patriarchy; feminist think they are and have offered reasons for this analysis e.g. my analysis of why men aren't supported in context of DV. Which is why I think that critiquing the gender based distribution of.agency is potentially liberationary for all of us. If you have an alternative analysis and strategy, please do offer it.

Thanks for the heads up Bif. I'll let MNHQ know too, those Klaxons often need reinforcements.

oh great, so now the OP is going to prove us all right and we're the ones who have to bear the brunt of it

hilarious assumption that we might find it a wee bit tricky to set up an account, so need reassurance that it won't tax our ladybrains too much

Op, no one suggested you should go and crayon on Reddit. You decided that for yourself. What a chump!

I'm actually pleasantly surprised by the responses to the thread that Voix posted on his reddit site. Aside from the predictable response that feminists want to put women ahead of men (really?) and the old "biological differences" chestnut.

It does smack somewhat of not understanding what feminism is really about. Which is tragically pervasive everywhere, not just MRA groups.

Oh no, we don't need feminism at all...Yet another example of women's time and energy being wasted by men. Why are you all attempting to educate this nincompoop?

His question has been answered multiple times over the course of the thread, and he has ignored each and every one.

i think we should all go home and let men sort out inequalities. they've done such a great job so far

Gilbert, we tend to refute this type of poster's posts in order for the many people we know who lurk on the board. Lots of people have come to understand that feminism isn't a bunch of hairy, ugly, sexually repressed harridans because they've lurked and read threads like this, we are reliably informed.

Otherwise, yes, what you said.

I notice that one of the Reddit comment says, that because feminists refuse to speak up for men, it's the reason the MRA movement started.

And of course, the MRA movement is really making headway, with with MRAs sitting on their fucking backsides posting up on web forums, whinging about how no-one takes men's issues seriously.

That's a surefire way to improve things.

I mean it isn't like you have to get up off your backside, and actually do something, to bring about change.

I'm off. The OP will think he has won or that he is right, but it's not worth my time. Thank you feminists (who may or may not be wimmin), you have been very educational and patient to a fault! I have learnt a lot from you

Fucking hell, this is why I don't bother with the MRAsubreddit. Apparently this is the best post on your thread OP. I have highlighted the statements where this poster has made illogical and opposing arguments. And don't try to tell me that both of them can co-exist in the same logical argument, because that wouldn't be true if you are rational.

"I suppose I'm feminist insofar as I think no woman should be treated as less because of a gender they're born as. I also think the same should never apply to a man. However, total equality has to be labelled exactly what it is: impossible. I think that's where some feminists fall flat. I don't mean that equality is impossible because I want it to be that way, I say it because it is. Our genders are not equal, we're different. We have our advantages and disadvantages. Some things one gender can do, the other cannot. It's a fact of the design of our species. I say clearly that I do not condone gender discrimination, I do not believe one gender is superior to the other, and I do not agree with anyone who does. That having been said, neither gender is below respect, good pay, a good life, and all the comforts one can afford (within legal confines)."

You can click on usernames and have a scroll through previous comments. Pretty sure it won't be long before you hit misogyny.

There's misunderstanding feminism and then there's believing that men get locked up not the say so of one woman, and all women lie, are out to spermjack men for child support, out to 'divorce-rape' (seriously) them and take all their money via alimony leaving them homeless. While also being more violent and rapey than men ever could be.
And when they're not circlejerking over that, they're crowing over videos of women getting hit.

The place is a cesspool. I've seen reasonable people interested in men's rights there but they don't tend to stay long.

Influx of Mortifying Dickheads .

Would love to post over there but I'm still banned from the last time I tried. I was Kate150 if you want to look and see what happens if you actually try to engage in any sort of debate.........

It is quite funny when MRAs don't even know why or how their movement started.

You know, somewhere there must be a list of Things Women Can't Do, (because of, you know, biology) that it turns out women can do just fine, thanks. Like running long distance. Cos we're too frail for that. Only it turns out that when you get to Ultra distance we're actually better than men. Whodathunkit? Do maths? Fly a plane?........ run a country?

And there's only one thing I can think of that women can do that men can't and that's push a baby out of a vagina. Which I've never seen written into any job spec.

Equally, it turns out that penises don't really get in the way when men try to operate vacuum cleaners and that men can change nappies quite well when they try.

So I'm forced to wonder what these "different but equal" people envisage should be put firmly on the "men's things" and "women's things" sides of the gender divide.

Is that right Hakluyt? I find that hilarious that you got banned 'over there'. Is that a badge of honor that you wear proudly to proclaim how rational your female brain is?

Ha ha. OP's equal but different comment. Now where have I heard that before? Oh yes, various (best left unnamed as I don't want to get banned) religious sites. Funny how the "different" bit somehow always leads to having fewer rights. Must be coincidence an' all.

"Is that right Hakluyt? I find that hilarious that you got banned 'over there'. Is that a badge of honor that you wear proudly to proclaim how rational your female brain is?"

Don't understand, sorry.............

CaptChaos, I know that really, I was kind of verbally shaking my head. I have loved reading many of the posts on this thread, in particular those posters who seem to have the skill of articulating feminist perspectives so powerfully.

Gilbert, I guessed you would. Things like this are bloody tiring. And dull.