Feminist Pub X: Regulars and new faces welcome, consciousness raising is a possibility.

[CaptChaos]

The old pub now has less than 10 posts to go, so I thought I'd start a new one. The old one can be found here

This is a place for feminist pom pom waving and talking about stuff which might not need a thread for itself.

Fill your boots.

Ugh, tenacious punter is not only tenacious, but boring. Why do they never come up with anything new? I can almost predict what they will say next.

Maybe some computery types can make a punterbot to deal with them? It can preempt all their shit and negate us arguing with them

@ NABALT

Petula, I think that is an eminently sensible suggestion.

Do they not realise just how dull they are?

Hello - long time fwr lurker (and v occasional poster) here. I had a thread on this but weasel suggested I post it in here too. My local dv refuge has been shortlisted for the Lloyds Community Fund. My friend is the treasurer and they are currently the only refuge in the whole of my county (Gloucestershire). If anyone could spare the time to vote for them it would be much appreciated!

Thanks!

communityfund.lloydsbank.com/communityfund/cf_org_vote_profile.asp?cfr=98C953

thanks asta - have voted

Hi Astarael, welcome! Voted for you

Also, as I'm posting I have something that's been niggling at me. On X factor (I think last week) there was a creepy auditionee that had a crush on Cheryl. While he was singing he went up to her and held her hands, totally invaded her personal space by pulling her into embraces and I think he even kissed her hand at one point. She looked so so uncomfortable but noone did anything to stop it. Cowell was just laughing.

Why do women have to put up with this? Why did he have a right to invade her space?

Oh that sounds awful Astar I didn't see it (can't watch xfactor any more) - but women are seen as public property aren't they?

Evening all! Just catching up with my FWR reading and noted the latest twat to have invaded. Pity I wasn't in earlier, would have loved to have sparred a bit with him, although I have a feeling he wouldn't have been much of a match .

And yes, to having your personal space invaded. I have watched a number of televised events where a male has evaded a female's space and actually taken liberties with them, because on camera, the female can't do anything. Makes me .

Not evaded, invaded!

Thanks for the votes! May post on relationships at some point too.

It was hard to watch sabrinnnnna - I tend not to watch x factor either as a rule. Had run out of pre recorded stuff to catch up on.

Do post on relationships.

I have just voted.

Also they send you an email and you have to confirm your vote, just in case it goes to your spam folder.

Mine went to the promotions bit of Gmail.

Do hang out here Astarael, always nice to have new drinkers in the pub.

Thanks for the votes. I've posted on relationships penguin - good.point re the email weasel I should have mentioned that!

It's depressing isn't it Zazzles? You know I met a man for the first time on Saturday and was straight away forced into a hug and a kiss on each cheek. I mean, who does that? It meant I was uneasy with him for the rest of the time we were there. I don't trust space invaders!

Yep Astarael it is shit. I have realised situations where I have been forced/manipulated into a hug/kiss with a man I barely know, or only know in a professional capacity. And a Space Invader is a good name for them. It is a forced intimacy with a person who there is little or no relationship with. And again, the onus is on the woman to protect herself from such interactions - I have perfected the shove-my-right-hand-out-for-a-hand-shake, before I get that icky hug .

The body's image this is just so pervasive, I saw a picture the other day, of me involved in a local campaign and instead of think 'oh, look at me, supporting my community and trying to make a difference, quite proud of that' all I thought was 'so fat, I'm so bloody fat at the minute'. As if fat is the single worst thing I could ever be.

Did you all know that shaving your forearms is now a thing we're supposed to do? My year 10 girls were telling me this morning. I was shocked by them shaving their arms (apparently "nobody loves a bear" ) but I suspect they were more shocked that I don't shave anywhere at all "not even your legs Miss?" "you've got to shave your armpits though?". I don't know whether I achieved anything in the course of our conversation except to reinforce their opinion that I am weird, but maybe the thought might cross their minds in years to come that shaving every inch of their bodies isn't compulsory.

That's what I think evey time I look at a picture of myslef ifyoure. I'm working on accepting my body for what it is, but it's really, really hard trying to go against all that conditioning I've had and am still getting.

Did you all know that shaving your forearms is now a thing we're supposed to do?

Don't tell me there is another female thing I am failing at . Its getting out of control! I had to have a medical check for a new job that I'm starting shortly, and the GP asked me to raise my hands above my head (testing basic range of motion stuff). I almost apologised for not having shaved under my arms (and I am not a hairy person by any means). I only just managed to stuff the apology back in my mouth and keep it shut!

to my eternal shame i can remember saying to a girl at primary school that she had really hairy arms. i remember how upset she was - we both knew it wasn't a compliment. i remember her name but i don't know what she's doing now and i hope she doesn't remember it like i do

how horrible i was, making my own little contribution to the insecurity that is heaped on small girls about their bodies

I shaved my forearms aged 18 because my boyfriend took the piss.

I do not recommend it (and to be fair, I'm sure he knows he was a wassock now).

Yeah, I epilate my forearms. I know, I know. Its the only part of my body I can epilate. The rest I shave.

I know - I don't even claim it's my choice. It's not - I'd far rather not do it. I just just can't not do it.

There was a recent thread about women's body hair that was excellent. Some really enlightening posts. I'm just not brave enough to change the habit of a lifetime. Yet.

I don't shave so I get all the fem credentials, which is a bit unfair because I'm fair and you.probably wouldn't notice either way. People.do.notice.My armpit hair but I've managed to turn it into something sophisticated and attractive in my own head so I don't get the jitters. When folk.stare, I usually think they are stunned by how awesome it looks when it's meant to be minging I'm laughing out loud with joy and amusement as I.write this cos.I've. only just noticed the clever little trick I've done on my hair demon. With my legs, again it's fair so I rather assume it just makes the edges look sort of indistinct, as if you haven't focused properly. Ha ha! I've developed a.defence against the hair police and it's precisely as rational and "true" as the hair police bullshit, except I feel good instead of bad when listening to it.

I'm a bit like you OutsSelf. I am really, really lucky to just not be hairy at all, but it is a fortune I share with the rest of my family - none of us are hairy. I could go without shaving ever again in my life, and no one would comment. I only shave my arm pits and legs in the summer - the arm pits because I live in a very, very hot and humid environment and I am more concerned about BO, and the legs in the summer, just cos it feels nice .

But no one should be judged as a good or bad feminist for the things that they are or are not doing - it is such a personal choice. We all have the right to decide for ourselves how we are going to express our feminism.

When I was younger I used to look at pics of myself and stress about how fat I was. I was 5'8" and about 10 stone.

Now I really don't care. I have a great smile and fine eyes, and an even better personality. I have finally managed to see what I am doing not the outside of myself, but it took getting to my 40s (and being quite ill) before I stopped obsessing over what weight I looked like.