Feminist Pub X: Regulars and new faces welcome, consciousness raising is a possibility.

[CaptChaos]

The old pub now has less than 10 posts to go, so I thought I'd start a new one. The old one can be found here

This is a place for feminist pom pom waving and talking about stuff which might not need a thread for itself.

Fill your boots.

We have never had scales in my house. My DD wears what she likes, usually jeans and shirts. She is beautiful.

On the subject of body image / strength, this was in my local paper at the weekend
England rugby world cup winner Sarah Hunter on looking good and being strong

i have a history of ED so while my understanding of healthy weight/diet is very good on a rational level, my urges are totally messed up. the following paragraph is written with my rational head on. it's very much a case of do as i say, not do as i do, sadly

one of the things that i have come to realise is REALLY fucked up is the concept of "maximum volume; minimum calories" when it comes to food. the idea that we (women mainly) should be seeking out low nutritionally dense food to pick at constantly is insane. threads entitled "what are your favourite low calorie snacks" make me despair - fgs you are a sizeable warmblooded animal, you need a decent meal with good quality protein and fat to function properly, not rice cakes coated with dubious artificial flavourings. you are important enough to nourish properly

I do wonde if snacking is almost about keeping busy; as in you're doing something wrong if you aren't on the go so you need to constantly snack. Combined with the ever present "go on, treat yourself" message.

I'm fat though. So who knows.

That's the thing, though, JustTheRightBullets, I don't know a single women who is actually fit and athletic, who treats her body well and gets a good amount of exercise, who is actually really skinny. OK, long-distance runners maybe, because the very lean body shape suits that sport. But most sports require some toned bulk. So these women who are 6/8 or even 10 if they're tall, are unlikely to be fit and healthy.

At my ideal weight I'm a 10/12, bang in the middle of my healthy BMI range and with good muscle tone to boot. And I'm a short shit at 5'2. So I would think it's quite unusual for any woman taller than me (and most are) to be a 8/10 and not be right at the bottom of their healthy BMI. Yet 5'8 and even 6'0 women thought they were FAT at size 12!

you're right hoppy - it's a product of the whole thing where women should be prioritising others' needs over her own

Oscar Pistorius fucking disgusts me.

Same here Liney. I really hope he's given a jail sentence and not allowed bail pending appeal.

Bullets - muscles don't weight more than fat, but they have a greater density, so a mass of muscle takes up less volume in the body than the same mass of fat would.

That's one of the reasons why you can have two people, of the exact same height and weight, but have totally different shapes/figures.

It's also why BMI is only a tool, but not a fail safe one, when it comes to determining healthy weight-to-height.

Many rugby players have "unhealthy" BMIs, but a lot of their weight is muscle, and they have very low body fat. I read an article (in a rugby publication) which said there were members of the England rugby team at the time, who had BMIs classed as overweight, but who only had 8% body fat.

I am technically 'obese'. However, I have a very low blood pressure and cholesterol readings, eat healthily and do a reasonable amount of exercise (a decent work out 2 or 3 times a week, I'm on my feet most of the day). So my doctor describes me as 'healthily overweight'. To lose weight I have to pretty much stop eating, and work out excessively. I last between a few days and a couple of weeks, then I start getting constant headaches and every bug going. If I persevere more than that I just stop losing weight.

Basically, my body just holds onto calories very effectively. I'm also hypo thyroid, and have had symptoms since the age of 14, but it took until I was 42 to be diagnosed and given the right meds.

So - even though my weight is 'unhealthy' I am actually healthier being heavy than when I was in my 20s and just didn't eat and was ill all the time.

This idea of there being 'healthy' norm which everyone should fit into just doesn't work. There are people who would have to massively overeat in order to be heavy enough, and others who have to really damage their bodies by denying themselves food.

We really should think more about a healthy lifestyle - food, exercise, relaxation, sleep etc and let our bodies sort themselves out. We don't go on special diets to change height, eye/hair color, but for some reason there is this idea that weight is entirely within the control of the person, whereas genetics is far more influential, with lifestyle playing a secondary role. But then there is a LOT of money to be made to convince people that they should 'do something' to fundamentally change their body type.

Size twelve is fat now? That's it, I'm handing back my Woman card; clearly I'm unworthy of it!

My siblings and I all inherited a tendency to gain weight very easily from my dad. It's interesting to see our kids - my sister's two have that same tendency, and healthy appetites, and my brother's daughter does too. Mine takes after her father, hasn't a spare ounce on her, would rather throw food than eat it. They were all weaned in much the same way. I'm forced to conclude genetics plays a very large part in weight, not just in how much the body likes to cling to all available calories, but also in terms of appetite.

I agree that genetics play a big part. I have the exact same body shape as my mum, grandma and 2 aunts. My sister is slimmer not hard but that is because she is diabetic and keeps tight control of her diet. My sisters dc both have the family shape. I have pcos which makes it easier to gain weight and harder to lose it, so I'm trying to work on accepting myself the size I am but I'm trying to get fitter as well by exercising.

I hate the way we're all conditioned to think that perfectly healthy weights are fat.

i think girls are taught at a very very early age that the body is an enemy whose needs you should fight, rather than an ally whose needs you should support.

Do you think OP's book will be a bit like this?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/If_I_Did_It

I flat shared with someone with an eating disorder and found it really, really hard. Not because the rules she'd have for herself, but because somehow, my weight became an issue for her. I was underweight at the time (purely accidental and temporary) and she'd make a big issue out of it. I've lost count of the number of times I had to eat when not hungry just to appease her, while she wouldn't. In a couple of years I ended up a bit chubby and she lost weight and then she'd go shopping with me and pick up the same items, but pointedly a size or two smaller.

I am really aware that this is not the behaviour of everyone with an ED, and I feel for everyone who struggles with food, including herself, but God I found it tough. I'm very sporty so I eat when I'm hungry and from time to time, when confronted with a thin person, I moan about my spare tyre or the size of my backside to my DH. It's a bad habit I'm trying to break out of.

I am huge. I have had some really nasty comments made in loud voices by people in restaurants. However, there's no one on earth who judges me as harshly as I do myself. I have had problems with EDs since childhood, so my body image is out of whack anyway, but I have had to learn to shut the script down. For now, there's nothing I can do about it, it's caused by a medical problem and until that's sorted I will be a blob.

When you're very big, it makes you into a non person. People assume you're deaf and stupid, unless they really do mean for the shitty comments to hurt. You can't buy clothes that fit, unless you want to look like you're wearing something that Demis Roussos would have turned down. I don't need society to hate me, I do that quite easily for myself.

CaptChaos

i;m sorry you've had to put up with that shit Capt . more fool them - they're missing out on your wit, intelligence and kindness

BISS - what an absolute nightmare. hopefully i've never done that. i don't think i have - i've always been very secretive so was always trying to appear as though i ate normally in company and was "naturally" very thin. i suspect it was less to do with your actual body size and more to do with her demonstrating her willpower. sorry it had such a rotten knock-on effect on you