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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

PetulaGordino · 14/10/2014 22:25

if you have a son who you are concerned could end up in ched evans' situation, you really should encourage him to seek help

grabagran · 14/10/2014 22:32

Yup. As I thought. No neutral discussions here.

YonicScrewdriver · 14/10/2014 22:34

"Are some jealous of his earning power which clouds their opinions?"

Am I jealous of Ched Evans the rapist, convicted for raping a woman, who acted despicably with respect to his rape of her being filmed and who encouraged his friends and family to hound the woman who he raped, breach court provisions regarding the anonymity of victims of rapists like him and make her life even worse than he did by raping her, the vile rapist?

No.

SevenZarkSeven · 14/10/2014 22:35

"The only reason I am on Mumsnet is to read neutral and well-informed arguments from like-minded people."

Um, well, you're clearly on the wrong website.

on this website, we are a large fairly disparate group of people who all have our own opinions, yet who on this thread on this subject seem to be fairly well in accord.

You are looking for a different website if you want to find like-minded people. I believe that there is a website run by Ched Evan's supporters, who spend their time spouting rape myths, harassing his victim, and generally being a bunch of complete wankers. Just FYI.

YonicScrewdriver · 14/10/2014 22:36

The court made a truly informed judgement on the guilt of the rapist, Ched Evans. Was that what you meant?

YonicScrewdriver · 14/10/2014 22:37

Incidentally, as it may be of interest to you, statistically your DS is more likely to be raped by another man than to be falsely accused of rape.

PetulaGordino · 14/10/2014 22:39

is a neutral discussion one in which we don't discuss the fact that a rapist has been convicted of rape? not my idea of neutral at all

SevenZarkSeven · 14/10/2014 22:39

I think a certain poster's attitude is clear:

"I have a son and a daughter, both in their late teens and early twenties who could be in exactly the same position as Ched/victim"

And then some stuff about poor Ched.
Not a word about the victim.

As if, the victim doesn't matter at all. Even if she were that poster's daughter - and that poster has a daughter that age - who had been raped - still no comment is made.

Depressing isn't it.

Panthingies · 14/10/2014 22:42

grabagran - could you expand on what you mean by your son could be in the same situation as CE, i.e. convicted of raping a woman by virtue of her being unable to give consent to sex due to her intoxication levels? Are you speaking to him at all about this, and so preventing the creation of yet another victim?

cadno · 14/10/2014 22:43

Incidentally, as it may be of interest to you, statistically your DS is more likely to be raped by another man than to be falsely accused of rape.

Where is this from ?

YonicScrewdriver · 14/10/2014 22:54

In the period of the review, there were 5,651 prosecutions for rape and 111,891 for domestic violence. During the same period there were 35 prosecutions for making false allegations of rape, six for making false allegation of domestic violence and three for making false allegations of both rape and domestic violence.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/mar/13/false-allegations-rape-domestic-violence-rare

YonicScrewdriver · 14/10/2014 22:56

Based on aggregated data from the ‘Crime Survey for England and Wales’ in 2009/10, 2010/11 and 2011/12, on average, 2.5 per cent of females and 0.4 per cent of males said that they had been a victim of a sexual offence (including attempts) in the previous 12 months. This represents around 473,000 adults being victims of sexual offences (around 404,000 females and 72,000 males) on average per year. These experiences span the full spectrum of sexual offences, ranging from the most serious offences of rape and sexual assault, to other sexual offences like indecent exposure and unwanted touching. The vast majority of incidents reported by respondents to the survey fell into the other sexual offences category.
It is estimated that 0.5 per cent of females report being a victim of the most serious offences of rape or sexual assault by penetration in the previous 12 months, equivalent to around 85,000 victims on average per year. Among males, less than 0.1 per cent (around 12,000) report being a victim of the same types of offences in the previous 12 months.

www.gov.uk/government/statistics/an-overview-of-sexual-offending-in-england-and-wales

cadno · 14/10/2014 23:00

The number of prosecutions of either is not the same as the incidents of the crime.

YonicScrewdriver · 14/10/2014 23:00

So - if we apply the proportions in my second post (ie 12.4% of victims of sexual assault by penetration are male) to the number of prosecutions for rape in the first post, 5651, which matched the period in which 35 false accusations were prosecuted:

5651 * 12.4% = 700 of those rape prosecutions having male victims.

Am putting it together from various sources but since 700 is 20 times 35, I feel confident in what I said above.

Do feel free to find your own stats, though.

YonicScrewdriver · 14/10/2014 23:01

Sure - but I am comparing like with like ie prosecutions with prosecutions.

cadno · 14/10/2014 23:09

I should imagine that male/male rape is nearly always prosecuted where the evidence allows. I have seen (professionally) the Police complete disinterest in proceeding with investigations of perverting the course of justice/ wasting police time when it comes to rape allegations - even if they had the evidence, when there is very rarely any.

Plus if you see the CPS guidance on prosecutions for these offences - you'll note their lack of interest too

YonicScrewdriver · 14/10/2014 23:13

If you disagree with my numbers, feel free to find your own.

One hopes that nearly all crimes are prosecuted where the evidence allows, doesn't one?

cadno · 14/10/2014 23:15

I don't disagree with the numbers you produce - I disagree with your interpretation of them.

YonicScrewdriver · 14/10/2014 23:16

Conviction rate and prosecution. Rate not the same, of course, but an interesting pointer.

In 2011 the conviction rate for rape against a female was 39.7%, just below the 45.2% rate for rape against a male. The aggregate rate across all sexual offences was 60.3%.

www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2013/jan/11/male-female-rape-statistics-graphic

YonicScrewdriver · 14/10/2014 23:18

Your call

How do you feel about Ched Evans serving just 2 years in jail for rape and then joining a high profile football team?

PuffinsAreFicticious · 15/10/2014 08:59

Some of today's crop of awfullness about Mr Evans.

Indy

DM, but via donotlink

PuffinsAreFicticious · 15/10/2014 09:03

The only reason I am on Mumsnet is to read neutral and well-informed arguments from like-minded people. I have a son and a daughter, both in their late teens and early twenties who could be in exactly the same position as Ched/victim. I have read everything available on the web and have come to my own opinion. Are some jealous of his earning power which clouds their opinions?I have never met him by the way, I just think we all have to make truly informed judgments, rather than ranting away.

How much more truly informed should I be than reading the case notes from his trial? Having read them and knowing that he turned his cab around to go back and rape a young woman who was too drunk to consent in a hotel room, while his pals try to film it through the window, I feel it's pretty justified to be angry. I, for one, have brought my sons up to respect themselves and others better than to do that. So, they will never be in that position.

Panthingies · 15/10/2014 20:06

I see that the manager of his last club are 'in talks' with the owners of that club re re-highering CE. His contract is up, and they have no need at all to re-engage him. So they need not at all be 'in talks' whatsoever. Unless they wish to be.

CE is an unreconstituted rapist. SUFC do need to consider their position on this, acutely. Whilst the rest of the footie world are worried about the rising cost of attendance, and the lack of black coaches/managers in the pro game, I'd fear that the case of CE will cause not a blip. The only source of comfort is the fact that Richard Scudamore was roundly boo-ed when presenting the Premiership trophy to Man City in summer, the week after the revelation of his nasty emails re women. The rise of the Premiership in the national sporting consciousness and how well it was/is marketed, means that it's responsibility re societal changes cannot be ignored - it isn't absolved of correct messages being given. SUFC aren't a Premiership team, but the power the Premiership holds, as a brand indicates a culture-setting responsibility. Scudamore survived, IF CE 'survives' and returns to SUFC there will be a mighty consequence far beyond SUFC. The constituent parts of footie supports has developed from the 'bloke wanting an emotional violent release' on a Saturday afternoon as per days gone by.
all imho.

Panthingies · 15/10/2014 20:09

Its prob noteworthy that no other Championship, or League One club have been associated with him.

YonicScrewdriver · 17/10/2014 00:31

And Nick Clegg is advocating against..