Ched Evans allowed back

[juliascurr]

www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/football-league/ched-evans-sheffield-united-striker-to-return-to-club-after-rape-sentence-despite-petition-garnering-60000-signatures-against-him-9666380.html

really bad news

Ched Evans, thoughts and facts

Warning: please removed any valuable objects from your close proximity, that you wouldn't want to throw and break.

Second warning: Not many comments, but enough to get you

i do agree with you empire - i think it is right that there are many jobs that are unavailable to rapists, whether repentant or not. and i think that professional football should be one of them, particularly where there is no repentance and the active persecution of the victim as in this case. but i'm not going to say that there is no way they can be allowed to do any paid work, because that would seem pointless

That was my point Empire, before Puffins went off on one. While footballers are carrying out there work, on the pitch or training, they are no danger to anyone, so I don't see how you can restrict his right to work. But his lack of contrition is appalling. It's only my opinion, but I wonder if he has been advised to claim innocence to preserve his earning power. Either way, he is wrong.

it depends on your definition of harm

is he going to rape anyone while playing football? it's unlikely

is his presence on the pitch going to bolster established and damaging misogynistic views and myths about victims of rape, the act of rape and rapists? i would say yes

Fair enough Petula, and I'd agree. But I don't know how you would frame a law to achieve that.

oh i appreciate that the judicial services that look after prisoners post release will only be concerned with reoffending. i don't know the answer to that either, and i don't know how much that can be enshrined in law or if that's what's needed

what IS needed though, and urgently, is as i said above (i'm being a knob and quoting myself) "football clubs and governing bodies need to get their houses in order, because currently they are condoning misogynist, violent, racist and homophobic behaviour across the board. but i doubt they will do anything unless fans and sponsors take the issue seriously and vote with their feet (and wallets)"

it has to be demonstrated at a society level that we will not condone this. but there is a shitload of misogyny out there and the footballing community upholds that, whether individuals agree with it or not

I think a rational approach is needed. Is it the norm for convicted people to return to their old jobs or not. I thought the whole point of going to prison was that was your punsishment or rehabilitation was for a fixed period of time. Or should it bar you from going back to your old job or profession.

I think, VM, it depends. If you work with vulnerable people, e.g a care worker, then you cannot return. Similarly, coppers, medics and the judiciary. But ordinary joe/josephine can, in theory.

And I agree that it's a big problem in football. The recent e-mails from Pater Scudamore at the Premier League show how ingrained some behaviour is.

in my industry they would almost certainly ahve been dismissed for gross misconduct, and any new applications would require disclosure of convictions. there is no direct contact with vulnerable people, but i guess the company might be liable if they knew of the conviction and put another person at risk (possibly? not sure of legal aspects here)

I think this is the main problem - the ingrained behaviour of football 'stars'. Anyone else convicted of rape quite probably wouldn't get their old job back. Yes I'm now agreeing with him not being allowed to return. Because would a TV personality be returning. I doubt it.

i don't know... dlt has been offered big brother apparently. a different form of sexual assault, but it sends a similar message if true

Nearly everyone who goes to prison loses their job and finds it hard to get another one. Especially if the offence was violent, sexual or theft from an employer. Usually the sorts of options open are factory work, some construction companies, some retail companies. Employment is a major factor in reducing risk of re-offending so it's in all of our interests that prison leavers find employment, but being paid massive sums and treated like a 'star' really grates.

I do think it would be impossible to legislate for though. It requires employers to take ethical decisions. The football industry needs to develop a moral compass.

Interesting...

I did read the post I responded to wrong. I had a shitty night and had just read a thing about Judy Finnegan being a complete arse, DH has left a football forum because he found far too many people saying that Evans had done his time blah blah blah. So, I was going to apologise. However, instead of being given the benefit of the doubt, I've been accused of being a man hater ,told how to do feminism and told I'm going off on one. Harold was the only one of our regular male posters who even thought I might have read it wrong, so, sorry Harold, you were right, I did read it, but it got muddled in my head and I responded to that.

I have a huge problem with this whole thing to be fair. There are certain jobs where it might be possible for a convicted rapist who refuses to acknowledge or apologise for their crime to go back to, but I can't really think of one. Even a builder could be alone in a house with a woman, plus of course, he wasn't alone, this was a planned attack. The one thing I am certain to my innermost core about is that he should never be paid to play football again. Raping that woman was bad enough, but his family and girlfriend have set up one of the most complete sets of rape myths on one internet site you could ever wish to find. They, and blades fans hounded his victim. They haven't stopped.

I really don't know what the answer is. Rapists, on the very rare occasion they are convicted, serve some of their time and then come out. However, stats show that rapists don't just rape once, so I wonder what level of danger he poses to women now. I get that prison is supposed to be about rehabilitation as well as punishment, but how much can you rehabilitate such a man? If he shows no contrition, he can't believe that he has committed rape, so would he do the same again????

I would suggest though, that given how football players are hero worshiped and looked up to, it would be a dangerous precedent to have a convicted rapist filling that role. Would people really want their kids cutting about in shirts with a rapist's number on the back?

Also, I think part of the problem is that football seems to love a bad boy, and a surprisingly large number of league players would end up unemployed if they couldn't play because they were criminals. I do think that violent crime should be an exception. Despite what JF thinks, rape is always a violent crime.

When I was growing up, I was given the message that rape was the second worst adult on adult crime after murder.

If Ched Evans had beaten a woman up and paralysed her, would he have got another playing gig once he'd done his time? What about if he'd done the same to a black man? Or a white man? Or a gay man?

Where does football say "enough"?

Yonic, Lee Hughes is a footballer who killed someone through dangerous driving and then drove off. He did three years in prison for killing someone. He promptly got a contract with another club upon his release.

If you are good enough, a football club somewhere will pay you.

Puffins, no hard feelings. We all read stuff wrong at times.

I also think that if this guy had raped another man, or a child, he would not be welcomed back and the fans wouldn't want him back.

This whole thing makes me feel quite unwell and I really think the footballing hierarchcy / club / whoever should be taking a stand over this.

If a man got convicted of rape at my work I am fairly confident that he would not be coming back.

The only reason I am on Mumsnet is to read neutral and well-informed arguments from like-minded people. I have a son and a daughter, both in their late teens and early twenties who could be in exactly the same position as Ched/victim. I have read everything available on the web and have come to my own opinion. Are some jealous of his earning power which clouds their opinions?I have never met him by the way, I just think we all have to make truly informed judgments, rather than ranting away.