Why the fucking fuck is that rapist Ched Evans being released anyway?

[AskBasil]

I thought that in order to get parole, the minimum you had to do was admit that you are actually guilty of the crime for which you've been imprisoned?

But Evans the rapist hasn't admitted that he's a rapist. He keeps saying he's innocent.

So why is he being released?

Is this normal now?

Do all prisoners automatically get early release for good behaviour even if they keep saying they didn't actually do the crime, therefore proving that the one thing that used to be a necessity for early release - remorse - is definitely missing?

Rape isn't an indiscretion Mengog, it's a violent crime.

Would you defend a member of your team committing a violent crime just because he's a member of your team?

Because if so, tbh I don't know what you're doing here talking to grown ups.

Good question as well CC. What can we do?

I think we need to start organising a sponsor boycott.

Although how to boycott a logistics company?

www.dbllogistics.com/

I suppose we could all e-mail them telling them not to support rape.

I thought it was a second hand car sales place, obvs high end, not yer actual delboy type.

Any company which has a social media presence can be picketed.

I don't care about the personalities or celebrity, it's all about what they do on the pitch.

The drama and the clannish nature is what help makes the game great. It creates the brilliant atmospheres and the myriad of emotions that watching a match brings.

Evans behaviour is sickening and disgusting. If his old club want him back then it doesn't change what he did or make it okay.

Womens football or anybody playing below professional level.

Unfortunately, much like all football fans I will defend my teams players for major indiscretions and castigate opposing team players for minor ones.

I don't care about the personalities or celebrity, it's all about what they do on the pitch.

The drama and the clannish nature is what help makes the game great. It creates the brilliant atmospheres and the myriad of emotions that watching a match brings.

You contradict yourself Mengog.

Have fun supporting wife beaters, rapists and violent criminals. If Evan's old club want him back, it says that being convicted for rape doesn't matter, that violence against women doesn't matter, what matters more than women is kicking about a few pounds of air and leather.

The drama and clannish nature of gladiatorial bouts was what apparently made them great too, maybe we should revive those as well?

Basil, I wouldn't defend anyone committing a violent crime. It's about debating the level of punishment.

I don't believe in the death penalty for murder, it doesn't mean I agree with murder or defend it.

I Think Ched Evans sentence was too light but I don't think he should be banned from football.

If his old club want him back then it doesn't change what he did or make it okay. Whilst it doesn't change what he did it does shape attitudes towards what he did. The club will be saying that his crime was acceptable on a level that they still want to keep him employed. That is a minimising of his actions down from major crime to 'major indiscretion' to use your words. It sends a message and it isn't a positive one to rape victims.

It's not that I think he should be banned from football as such.

It's that I think his crime should be viewed as so repellent that no decent person or club wants to associate themselves with him.

That 'unfortunately I will defend my team's players for major indiscretions' bit makes no sense.

You make it sound as though you are powerless to have a different opinion. You're not. If it's unfortunate then don't do it. Hold your players to account: and not just for the number of assists or accurate passes.

Be better than that: then maybe you can pass on the message to those around you that violence against women, and other 'major indiscretions' matter.

Mengog

About his sentence being too light - its noteworthy to think that had Chedwyn pleaded guilty from the off, he'd already have been released on licence by now, as he'd have been given credit for an early guilty plea - it's usually set at a third off.

Cadno

Mengog well therein lies the problem. Your enjoyment of that side of the game includes deeply ingrained and borderline mysogynistic attitudes. I don't believe they have to be essential to that side of the sport, and I'm afraid rightly or wrongly an ambassador for our very cultural identity. Therefore it has to be held to higher standards.

Unless you are arguing that the sexism is an inherent part of the sport and a source of enjoyment. Of course you have not come out and said that, but if that is what you feel might I suggest this is the wrong forum to be posting. If you don't feel that way I challenge you to do something about it.

When you refer to that side of the game, is that my reference to drama and clannish nature. If so, I don't understand why it's misogynistic or sexist. It what made football the most popular sport in the world.

Like I've said. In terms of Ched Evans - I wouldn't want my club to sign him but if a club wants to, then its there call. The paying public will vote with their feet and wallets.

You don't understand why playing people who have convictions for violence against women might be seen as sexist? In your desperation to continue with the status quo in the sport you claim to enjoy, you're prepared to not only overlook the misogyny on the pitch, but also your support of that misogyny on the terraces.

nice

If your club signed him, Mengog, what would you do?

That argument can continue forever. Surely you could say the same About Tesco if they employ people with convictions of violence against women. Or if someone is unemployed and getting government assistance does that mean the government are sexist.

Does it only apply to football. Golf? Cricket? Handball? Darts? Bankers? Cleaners?

I've just mentally gone through the normal chants that my club sing. Not one has a hint of sexism. Granted some individual people shout sexist, racist, homophobic things. They are in the minority in my experience.

Just wondering if you go to football, and what you're experience is in the stands.

Yes, I have been to many football matches. I found the behaviour of people in the stands to be fascinating. Perfectly normal, unassuming people turn into baying animals. Sexist, racist, baying animals. They aren't their to watch a game at all. Not quite seeing what my attendance or otherwise means in relation to your acceptance of misogyny in football though?

And no, it's not a circular argument, it is a singular one about whether or not the institutional misogyny and racism within the football community is a good thing, and it's not.

Let's not forget that the EDL came about due to racist football supporters.

Absolutely this debate argument can go on forever if you engage the points at an incredibly superficial level. The difference between football stars and shelf stackers at Tescos is massive. Little boys rarely if ever dream of working at Tescos.

I also wouldn't exempt other figures in the public eye. Like other sportsman, like it or not they are role models. Although it's been awhile since I've been in the stands and as far as I recollect I've not heard such from the stands. However this discussion is not primarily about the fans, it's about one of the men who play the game being a convicted rapist being a role model for little boys like mine. No thank you.

"The paying public will vote with their feet and wallets." Not sure that this is a measure of whether taking back Ched Evans should be acceptable. Our society is misogynistic already. So supporters views are already skewed away from supporting women. Plus regardless of how the general populace view this, the man was convicted of a violent crime against women. An institution such as football clubs that produces role models and that people do look up to, should be held to higher standards and recognise when they are upholding misogynistic views in this fashion. They should be expected to send out moral messages.

Wouldn't workplaces normally sack their staff if they had raped a woman?

If your club signed him, Mengog, what would you do?

Yes I used to regularly attend football. I stopped because the misogyny, xenophobia & racism in the stands (including family stands) was so unpleasant.

Not sure of your point re: tescos. Seems poorly thought through.

I go to around 6 games a season now. If we signed him, I wouldn't go. I would still support my team, watch them on TV and still want success. I wouldn't buy any merchandise.

The point re Tescos was in answer to Capt saying it would be sexist to play someone who has a conviction of violence against women. I enquiring if it was always sexist, or if it was only sexist for select occupations, and what exactly are those occupations.

I think the key point here is Ched Evans is a good footballer. A 17 year old average player would be dropped like a shot. A goalscorer whose goals could mean the difference between promotion and £15-20 million+ in the bank or not; make it very much a business decision.

Personally, the best thing he could do is go to Qatar ,UAE, Russia etc. Play for a club in the middle of nowhere get paid far more than he would at United and then retire quietly 2/3 years later. No fear of him being a role model, no press reports, no controversy. Disappear quietly where no one knows him

Thanks for answering, Mengog.

Mengog, the best thing he could do is acknowledge the rape & apologise to the victim.

Agreed