Feminist Pub IX. Newbies and regulars welcome - pop your cognitive dissonance down outside and have a gin.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

Right, thought I'd better start a new pub. I warn you, my knowledge of Roman numerals conks out shortly after this one, so either buffy will have to start the next thread, or we'll have to go Arabic.

Everyone is welcome in - if you want to chat, or just jump in with a question/link/gin, please do. Especially if it's too small for a thread or you don't feel up to thread-starting.

The old thread has, at my count, about 9 posts to go, and it was here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/2126791-Feminist-Pub-VIII-not-as-prolific-as-the-Swaggerers-but-there-are-cushions-and-consciousness?

We were just chatting about feministy light reading, and will doubtless meander onto other topics shortly.

otters

I only have half a mind on everything at the moment because I'm obsessed with my 1000 piece jigsaw puzzle of "London, looking north".

petula - perhaps, that makes sense (and I'd not thought of it quite like that). But I think a lot of it is simply that the world has really changed a lot in the last few decades and he hasn't quite caught up!

tewi - oh, yes, that's a sad thought. Same here. I think one of the best things about MN in that respect is the willingness to say LTB. It reminds us we can (not that DH is any kind of bastard, but still).

upto - that sounds far, far more positive/constructive than the annoying PhD students that usually keep you preoccupied!

I'm just reading this (MN gets a brief mention!): www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/09/01/troll-slayer

And on the (yeuch, 3.5 hours) x5 bus in to Cambridge to go look for houses.

LRD Alas there is no shortage of students who don't take advice ...

Oi! Don't be dissin' on PhD students! (5 weeks to submission - wibble!)

No dissing from me.

And good luck! You'll be fine!

Good luck with the house hunt! I love looking at houses.....

Welcome Slugs!

I will ponder and reply properly later, but didn't want you think we are all too busy to answer.

Hi slugs.

Sorry you're feeling so down about it. It does get to you sometimes. I do think there's a lot of positives to raising expectations and fighting, even when it is hard. I tried being the fluffy, housewifely, stepford-wife type (honest - I was shit at it) and while in some ways it is 'easier', I think it's nothing like so emotionally healthy.

Hello slugs!

There is no alternative to raising expectations. What is a viable alternative? It will not be an easy life to sit at home and meet societal expectations because you will be dependent on the whims and fancies of the demented mob. We just have to live and fight. Actually it might be easier not to go with societal demands since those seem to change all the time and none of it for the better. Do as I did - going through life completely self-centred and oblivious to everyone. (Only half joking.)

Annie Absolutely not dissing PhD students! Good luck!

LRD Nice article about Mary Beard.

Potentially good news here: m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28924206

And we fight because we have to. Sucks, but true. I'm pleased there seems to be momentum at the moment, it's a good time to start a project and push it forward, and every project reminds the world of the way there is still to go for real equality...

Ok, obviously good to have someone who is trying to lead the fight against violence to women, but the sentence which says that her role will include trafficking, arranged marriages and fgm seems to imply that either she will be looking mainly at a type of violence associated with a stereotype of Muslim culture, OR that those are the only types of violence against women. No hint at all about home grown good old traditional domestic violence by your native Brit. I'm sure that it is just the way it's been reported (wonder if her skin color influenced that), but it does make it sound like domestic violence is done by 'others' (Muslims) not white British.

And they mention twice that there is violence against women around the world. Wouldn't a figure about the number of women seeking shelter from Women's Aid have been relevant to discussing the need for this post within British politics?

kickass - I didn't read it that way at all. It read to me as if she will tackle domestic violence and sexual violence, which are ongoing issues affecting all women, and also take on issues such as forced marriage and FGM which are tragically getting swept under the carpet because we (we = the British public) still see Muslims as "other" and don't give these issues nearly enough consideration. Which all seems absolutely fair to me.

Saying that she isn't focussing enough on the problems of white women sounds a but like whatabouterty to me, although I know you didn't mean it that way.

The reporting isn't great, I agree, with the reporter having picked an obvious angle to tell the story from. But I see nothing in there to make me think that "regular" domestic violence is no longer going to get any attention.

Over the last few days there have been a few articles in the press regarding rape, and how much responsibility women should take for it.

The first was Judge Mary Jane Mowatt saying that conviction rates for rape won't improve until 'women stop drinking so much'. And the Mail agrees shock

The second was colour changing nail polish and the backlash against it

So it seems that, no matter how far we think we've come, it's still seen as women's responsibility to stop men raping them, by being sober and wearing nail lacquer.

There's also a really, really, really shitty article in the Guardian by Rhiannon Cosslett, which I'm trying to formulate a blog response to right now.

i'll look forward to that blog post LRD (well, sort of, i suspect it won't do my blood pressure any good)

kickass i understood her appointment in the same way as annie, but i agree with you both that the angle the article comes from gives a different slant

i'm on holiday at the moment in a scandinavian city, where they have two years' parental leave which can be split between the parents. i have seen what would be a relatively unusual sight in the uk i think, which is coffee shops with lots of groups of fathers with babies/toddlers, and lots of fathers alone with babies and toddlers. i think term has started for school age children, those i have seen are tourists.

wait sorry, it's only 52 weeks' entitlement which can be split between parents after a statutory period for the mother (i think)

I read that too. And the comments.

What the judge said will have ramifications for women. The legal bar is, iirc, that a woman who is too drunk to have consented, whether or not she would have consented while sober, the rapist cannot be deemed to have reasonably believed she was consenting.

The nail polish is a great innovation, well done those 4 men who invented it. The fact that it's being hailed as some sort of cure for 'date' rape is making my head explode. Plus there is the angle that, if you're not wearing your magic nail polish, and are raped, will that make it your fault? So, just another thing women have to police, along with skirt length, alcohol consumption, flirting and so on. It's almost like society expects women to stay at home.

No, CaptChaos, because you're just as likely to be raped as home (if not more so, I forget the stats).

What we're expected to do is put up with it. Hence all the blame if we dare to make a fuss.

the advice is nothing to do with reducing the risk of rape is it? it's all about reducing the risk of a woman being to blame for her rape

sorry, a better wording would be:

it's all about reducing the risk of a woman being blamed for her rape

i don't know who amy poehler is but this response was good. though the dickhead did respond with "i'm sensing a tone"

True Annie.

That commune can't happen soon enough really