Feminist Pub IX. Newbies and regulars welcome - pop your cognitive dissonance down outside and have a gin.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

Right, thought I'd better start a new pub. I warn you, my knowledge of Roman numerals conks out shortly after this one, so either buffy will have to start the next thread, or we'll have to go Arabic.

Everyone is welcome in - if you want to chat, or just jump in with a question/link/gin, please do. Especially if it's too small for a thread or you don't feel up to thread-starting.

The old thread has, at my count, about 9 posts to go, and it was here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/2126791-Feminist-Pub-VIII-not-as-prolific-as-the-Swaggerers-but-there-are-cushions-and-consciousness?

We were just chatting about feministy light reading, and will doubtless meander onto other topics shortly.

Oh, sorry, and kickass, god yes, send the head some links! That sounds appalling. Especially since some of those issues aren't so outlandish that you mightn't have students dealing with them, or variants on them.

Evening - I'll have that gin now! Just off to browse Amazon for some holiday literature - I think I might give Wolf Hall a go.

"They get to be 'artistic' about violence. "

Is that in the same way they get to be theoretical about abortion? Probably.

I also loved Wolf Hall and Bring Up the Bodies. Her earlier novel Beyond Black is also good and quite dark. Will have to check out The Golden Notebook. Very ambivalent about Gone Girl- it started so well but just collapsed like a flan in a cupboard at the end for me. Anybody read Dark Matter by Michele Paver? Very unsettling...

Yes, probably, ABland.

I couldn't get into Beyond Black, somehow.

Evening all. Just listened to the Moral Maze and got pissed off, then tried to read a bit of Lolita because someone on Mn years ago convinced me that I ought to. He's a creepy bastard. (Imagine your surprise)

I've always resisted Bring up the Bodies because I suspect I might be outraged by her portrayal of Anne Boleyn. One day I might brace myself though.

Oh congratulations / commiserations on your divorce LRD, I hope it all goes smoothly.

I wasn't keen on Gone Girl. I found some of her 'lying woman/ cheating man' stuff a bit, well, lazy.

I went on the 'drinking and rape' thread. I really shouldn't. It's like Groundhog Day. But every time I feel lie I have to join in because it can't just get left unsaid, can it?

penguins i found that problematic too wrt gone girl

I just think that the idea of the woman who lies about violence, abuse, etc is so firmly embedded in our culture that I'm not sure that I want my books to use it. Because the reality is that it's incredibly rare, but seen as not. And I feel that successful books that use that motif don't help things. I'd rather see a more original approach.

Thanks for all the comments - very good point about how there's the pressure for a happy ending v real life. My group are old enough to get the difference and why a children's book 'needs' a happy ending. I saw another colleague today who has the exact same reservation about this. We're glad to be given a tool to raise these topics, they're important, but some support on how to discuss them with really quite young kids (dd is still 10, and is meant to be reading the book). Some of the parents in our school are very conservative and may object to the book, so I'm glad that we're not just avoiding these points, but some resources/training etc would be helpful.

I also know that one of the kids I was worried about (these are dd's cohorts) has already said that the kid in the story should start a fight with the dad and hit him. Like I said, there could be some interesting discussions...

Penguins, I really agree with you on Gone Girl. I didn't think it was that great a book anyway but that particular point you made really struck me and annoyed me.

Good points re Gone Girl. What I did like was that it all came out of her resistance to Cool Girl and what a crap expectations there are around marriage, she had to give up her life and he got access to her inheritance then made some executive decisions about their lives. She was furious about the way she played along in all the right ways and he didn't in any way seem to be concerned by her expectations.

Avoiding the drinking and rape thread til after I have watched GBBO. I love a bit of cake and associated home mastery aspiration

Ah, but it's ok Just, because the photographer has a wife and sister and he's worried about them

Men playing with violence against women again. Because it's all theoretical to them.

Wanker.

Taking a break on here after DS2's mega tantrum ...

Those adverts are terrible.

These days I find myself repeating in my head Women's Rights are Human Rights.

If having mothers and sisters and daughters immunises people against misogyny then perhaps after all there are means of reproduction unknown to us.

Wow that's disgusting. The photographer was just "trying to throw light on it"?!!

If he wanted to do that he would have shown it in its gory horrifying reality not by having the models all sexed up, looking moody and wearing the latest fashions.

What a nasty idiot.

"the clothes worn by the models had all been made by top designers, but none had been credited publicly because the shoot was not for commercial gain"

i don't know whether this makes things better or worse. neither really.

Remington UK are asking people for their embarrassing body hair stories on Facebook.

Lots of people with common sense in force in the comments.

harriet harman didn't respond to my DV refuges question on the webchat. i'm very disappointed. she did respond to DV questions elsewhere, but still

Pardon me for being slow, but is there a certain person hanging about the FWR board posting rather odd things?

I'm going to take a holiday when school starts. This working at home with children hanging about is very wearying.