Feminist Pub IX. Newbies and regulars welcome - pop your cognitive dissonance down outside and have a gin.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

Right, thought I'd better start a new pub. I warn you, my knowledge of Roman numerals conks out shortly after this one, so either buffy will have to start the next thread, or we'll have to go Arabic.

Everyone is welcome in - if you want to chat, or just jump in with a question/link/gin, please do. Especially if it's too small for a thread or you don't feel up to thread-starting.

The old thread has, at my count, about 9 posts to go, and it was here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/2126791-Feminist-Pub-VIII-not-as-prolific-as-the-Swaggerers-but-there-are-cushions-and-consciousness?

We were just chatting about feministy light reading, and will doubtless meander onto other topics shortly.

at NAALT.

I think Lucy Mangan thinks we're all over-theorising about the trans debate, in the same way. You could reduce that to 'come on, why are you being so silly, surely it doesn't matter?' very easily. Mind you, I've no idea whether animals voting is something that has an underlying usefulness or not - but loads of things look over-academic until you get into them, IMO.

And agree with petula that 'bollocks' is often a valid response. It's not one we're encouraged to make, is it?

Btw, speaking of academic-y stuff and over-theorizing (and this is just a thought so please don't yell at me if I'm saying something ignorant - I'm not well up on the politics) - but do you think there's a link between a particular kind of nationalist identity, and masculinity? I think there must be. Far-right parties seem always to rest on a rigidly oppressive gender hierarchy, and UKIP is hugely anti-woman. In older literature, there's an image of geographical territory as being the same as a woman's body - both are things you can colonize - and so I can understand that might explain part of it. But does it also apply to things like our military, or the reporting of what's happening in Gaza, do you think? That it's somehow masculine to be nationalistic?

I'm sure there is, LRD. Something about finding an virgin landscape and sticking your flagpole into it. All a bit "Oh my america, my newfound land".

And look at how similar is some ways Farage and Salmond are.

quite literally in some cases elephants - the island Virgin Gorda (the fat virgin) in the BVIs was apparently named by christopher columbus when he first saw it because it looked like a fat woman lying on her side

i'm not sure how useful that is though as a piece of information!

Ewww at virgin land and flagpoles.

But, yes, you're right.

petula - mmm, that doesn't really make you think of Columbus as a nice well-adjusted guy, does it?

iirc at the time i saw it there were lots of jokes from the men in the party about how a ship full of sailors who had been at sea for a while must have been gagging for it fnar fnar

Hmmm, not sure I like the idea of bringing children into politics earlier. Making sure they're educated in it, sure. But childhood is brief enough without piling the pressure of having to make political decisions on the heads of children. I feel there's too much pressure in the UK to make children grow up early as it is, especially the education system. Every stage here happens two years earlier than in the rest of the world. Weird and not entirely helpful, IMO. I mean, it's not like we're known as the world's intellectual superpower as a result.

Aaaaaanyhooo, I have just been informed that I have "a complex" for pointing out that women are generally only validated in terms of their state of attachment to a man. You call it "a complex" (from your position of privilege), I call it "The Rage At Women Being Marginalised". Meh.

i went to state schools for most of my education, and then to a private school for the last part. one thing i noticed was how many of my privately educated peers were involved with young conservatives, young labour, liberal youth etc, and a number are still involved in politics (one at least is moving up the labour ladder). nothing like that in the state school. i imagine it varies from school to school and area to area, but the contrast was clear to me at that age

Oh, gosh ... never heard of the devil's point! That's a thought, why aren't all mountains illustriously penis-named?

annie - good luck with you, ah, 'complex. That sounds so annoying!

True. I am being mountain-ist.

not all mammaries are rounded justtherightbullets!

now you are being mammary-ist

or something

should valleys have female names?

Brown Willy?

Just

justtherightbullets sorry i missed your post about the rape trial. that is depressing reading, especially for you. sending strength

just tried to educate my brother a bit about male privilege by text message. not the easiest medium. not sure whether i made my point effectively

Petula Any luck?

This morning on the radio - 1979 interview with Lauren Bacall:

Interviewer (about some hot shot (male) director): Do you think he understands women?

(Me: What an idiot!)

Lauren Bacall: I think he fantasises a lot about women.

A bit too much first thing in the morning ...

i don't know... brother is very interested in and supportive of feminism and is very well-intentioned, but galumphs around with his analogies and whatabouteries as is the wont of a man who has never directly encountered discrimination.

First female winner for Fields maths medal

That is good news, Petula. But on the other hand, it is still sigh-worthy that it's exciting news when a woman achieves something for the first time in 2014 that men have been doing since forever.

i know.

Yes. It's depressing.

(I can already hear (male) voices saying: what do you want? We give you a prize you moan. We don't give you a prize you moan. Women!)

Is there a list somewhere of "firsts" still to be achieved? It would nice if we all got together - women generally, not just the Pubgoers, I mean, and tried to polish them all off by 2020 say.