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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

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Original poster

FemiFest

327 replies

FloraFox · 02/07/2014 22:32

www.femifest2014.com

Anyone going? I'm thinking about it.

OP posts:

almondcakes · 02/08/2014 10:41

Surely it is the same at all events? The organisers don't police it. If there is a support group for people with asthma, you are not expected to prove you are asthmatic. It is a question of individual ethics.

ApocalypseThen · 02/08/2014 11:19

Well, I'd like to hear and support the speakers, because I think they're interesting women with important things to say. Possibly it wasn't your intention, bit your initial posts seemed to imply that you would like to go because no one could stop you.

ArcheryAnnie · 02/08/2014 11:29

Do you often gatecrash events to which you are not invited, kim? It seems a very odd thing to want to do.

Curwen · 02/08/2014 11:42

I have been reading this thread with interest. It reminds me of a discussion about gay marriage on the radio. A gay man was arguing for, a male vicar against. Another panelist asked the gay man - 'why go to an institution that neither wants nor respects you?'

I'd ask kim the same question. These people don't want you there, because they don't respect you. So why do you want to be with people like that? I don't mean it in a nasty way - more like 'why bother with them?'. Closed-minded, insular people rarely have anything worth listening to (although I wouldn't put Greer in that category normally).

femin · 02/08/2014 11:47

Sorry about that with the fundraiser. I have quickly created a new one at www.youcaring.com/nonprofits/support-femifest/213065

And I personally think we have an amazing line up of speakers.

femin · 02/08/2014 11:50

And this is not about disrespecting individuals who are Trans. Men are not welcome, it doesn't mean we disrespect every single individual man. We explain on our website why our event is women only and what we mean by women only.

Curwen · 02/08/2014 11:56

Yes, sure you do. I read this - FemiFest organisers will not tolerate oppressive language or behaviour towards any group facing discrimination and oppression. I lolled.

I am a man. I wouldn't go to your event. I don't understand why anyone would. I wouldn't go to a male-only event where women weren't welcome. Ditto Asians, or disabled, or posh people, or those with a penchant for orange socks. Barring people of any persuasion tells me all I need to know.

ArcheryAnnie · 02/08/2014 11:58

These people don't want you there, because they don't respect you.

Except that's not true, Curwen. It's possible to think that there should be space and time for a day once a year for women who were socialised as girls to meet together to talk about stuff only they will have in common, without imagining that this means you don't respect people who don't fit into that category.

ArcheryAnnie · 02/08/2014 12:01

I wouldn't go to a male-only event where women weren't welcome.

I genuinely wonder how many events you have been to in your life which don't explicitly ask women not to attend, but which very few or no women do attend because they know they aren't welcome, and you haven't even noticed. I'd bet the answer is "lots".

femin · 02/08/2014 12:01

It sounds like radical feminism would not be of any interest to you anyway Curwen.

I always find the criticisms of radical feminist events a bit strange. There are plenty of feminist events I wouldn't go to because I don't agree with their views, and may find some of their views offensive, but I just leave them to get on with it. Their event is not for me, so I don't go.

almondcakes · 02/08/2014 12:02

Curwen, because some people are gay, vicars and Anglicans.

Curwen · 02/08/2014 12:19

Do they explicitly ask you not to attend those events though, femin, or do they simply list the schedule and you make up your own mind?

ArcheryAnnie · 02/08/2014 12:22

femin, thanks for the new fundraising page. I'm really sorry, but I'm not going to use it, as it asks for a lot of personal information, which - with all the attacks on women going on - I'm not prepared to give on a webpage. If I find one of my friends is going, I'll just put something in an envelope and ask them to hand it in in person.

Curwen · 02/08/2014 12:24

Annie, that's just moving the goalposts. I am referring specifically to events where certain people are explicitly not welcome, not what you mentioned. I go to football matches. The majority of the crowd is men. Nowhere on the tickets does it say 'men only'. Chalk and cheese.

ArcheryAnnie · 02/08/2014 12:25

Curwen, the world is full of events which are explicitly hostile to attending women, but which don't tell women not to attend, because they don't need to - that they are not welcome is something many women learn early, either by repute or trial and error. I'd be absolutely fascinated to know what work you have done, online and off, to address this.

ApocalypseThen · 02/08/2014 12:25

What would happen at your feminist conference, curwen? Men and transwomen talking feminism. What topica will ye cover?

ArcheryAnnie · 02/08/2014 12:26

Curwen, it's not moving the goalposts. If you make it unpleasant, uncomfortable and even dangerous for women to attend an event, you don't need to specify "men only" on the invitations. It still means women aren't welcome.

Curwen · 02/08/2014 12:30

From Wikipedia - The so-called typical "attacking a straw man" argument creates the illusion of having completely refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition by covertly replacing it with a different proposition (i.e., "stand up a straw man") and then to refute or defeat that false argument ("knock down a straw man") instead of the original proposition.

ArcheryAnnie · 02/08/2014 12:33

...that doesn't address anything, Curwen.

femin · 02/08/2014 12:37

ArcheryAnnie, that is a shame. I didn't know that. You can donate through eventbrite page, but of course they take a booking fee because it is for ticket sales.

The alternative would be to buy a ticket through eventbrite, and email a message that you bought it so that we can donate a free ticket to a woman who could otherwise not afford to come. We have had tickets donated.

Curwen · 02/08/2014 12:46

I'd be absolutely fascinated to know what work you have done, online and off, to address this.

I don't attend them. I stated that at 11:56.

I was really looking for kim's reasoning, but it seems like she isn't here. Happy to continue the conversation with you Annie, but on the understanding that it's a different subject.

almondcakes · 02/08/2014 13:02

Not to speak for Kim as an individual, but possibly there are trans women who are also radical feminists and whi would like to hear the speakers, and who can't as the speakers are no platformed elsewhere.

Curwen · 02/08/2014 13:14

What would happen at your feminist conference, curwen? Men and transwomen talking feminism. What topica will ye cover?

My event would be for anybody attending who is interested, courteous, and respectful of the environment. Same as any other event, really. You go to listen, think and reflect. Not shout your gob off, not spoil it for others. I'd put that on the ticket with no problems.

femin · 02/08/2014 13:23

That may be the case almondcakes. But we put the wishes and needs of some women to be in a women only space, first.

ArcheryAnnie · 02/08/2014 13:25

I don't attend them. I stated that at 11:56.

Except I'd put money on you having attended plenty, and just not noticed.

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