Feminist Pub VII - Chat, questions, random thoughts too small for a thread ...

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

Just setting this up while we finish off the last few posts on the old thread. Come in and pull up a bar stool!

The female-friendly films thing, and the rearrange-everything-round-men's-obsession-withfootball idea, does remind me of a comment from my sister-in-law years and years ago in the days when we only had 4 channels on TV. She said that she fully understood why 3 of the 4 channels had to be devoted to sport on Saturday afternoons (usually it was 1 - football/ 2 - horse racing and 3 - whatever out of golf/motorsports/cricket/snooker had a current tournament on) because that was men's day to be off work and enjoy their sports but, when she decided to catch up on her ironing and watch the remaining channel's Saturday afternoon old movie, why did it always have to be a Western?? So much wrong with all of that now beginning with the ironing and going all the way through to Westerns are for men.......but, at the time, it was a bit of an eye-opener

I hate this sexist thing that comes with sporting events. During the Olympics fucking "mums" were nurturing the next batch of champions by doing their fucking laundry.

The corporate justifications are no less imaginative than the ads themselves: "a universal insight about relationships", “the majority of our TV adverts feature men and women”, "if anything shows the female in the ultimate position of authority."

Depressing, too, how these ads almost all depict men deceiving women, and the hilarity thereof. Grown men are just lovable wee rascals at heart, aren't they?

Why is it these adverts and a lot of "funny" things are about men apparently trying to deceiving controlling (and boring, no-fun) women, when in real life everyone knows where the power lies?

Am I reading too much in to that thread over in Relationships?

Woman asks if she should sleep with man (if she wants to) on first date?

Then get posters saying that basically women lost their value once they've fucked a man/have no self respect/want to be like men

Why do we talk about "enthusiastic consent"? Apparently enthusiastic consent means a woman has no respect for herself.

What are these posters teaching their sons? Only have sex with women who don't want to have sex with you? It's vile. It makes me so angry. My daughter is going to be dating one day, and statistically more likely to be straight and that lot are raising their sons to be rapists.

I read that thread and some of the views were mind boggling. Especially the one teaching her son that 'it's not fun for girls' Oh, and that NormalBloke is nothing of the sort.

Morning. I don't think I will read that thread!

I got shouted at, by a man out of a car window, on my bike last night. I ignored it at first, instinctively trying not even to consciously register it, and then in the 10 minutes it took me to cycle home my rage built to the point where, had it been remotely possible to find him, I would have gone back and unleashed fury on that man. Who the fuck asked his opinion on anything?

It staggers me sometimes, the arrogance of fat, ugly, stupid, and generally not particularly special or important men, who think they get to go around talking and shouting and scratching and taking up space, and knowing fuck all and yakking on about it anyway, etc etc. I can’t cannot imagine being that confident while being that ugly and mediocre. Sorry if that sounds snobby and vile, I know we are all special snowflakes and god loves us all, but sometimes I just look at these eejits and think - what the fuck do you contribute? What on earth makes you think you get to talk about anything, let alone me or my body?

I don't think they mean don't have sex with women who want to, I think they mean that women who want to have sex are fine for fucking but not good enough for a relationship. Still a crap message, but a slightly better one than you're reading into it.

Fwiw, I had sex with dd1's father on the first date, we didn't have a particularly long relationship but it was more than just a couple of dates. And I had sex on the first date with dp, and we've been together for 8 years now (It was only the sex that persuaded me to go on a second date with him )

Oh, those ads and sporting events all organised around men are just tedious to the nth degree , I get vaguely irritated but find that I just don't have the nervous energy to get aerated about it in RL

Re the sex/relationship thing: I have 4 boys. And a DH who I am sure would say he is all for equality etc, but does not really live it. So I am the lone female voice in the house and I am so aware of it.

DS1(11) was shown a sexual health film at school yesterday. Well. He is disgusted and will never have sex, ever .
I did not go to see the damn thing because I really don't think that anything the schools are allowed to show their students will shock me, but from what DS1 was prepared to share it was all about 'periods and semen and penises', so about the 'technical' side of things (reproduction is covered by part 2 today apparently), rather than the relationship bit which IMO is so, SO important. Sadly, I think sex health ed that includes naming the bits and how they work is necessary because so many kids don't get that at home, but teaching about respect and consideration and the fact that sex is not a requirement and they can say No to it, seems sadly lacking. I don't mean necessarily for 11 year olds, but in general - respecting others is a Good Thing and not a weakness as it seems to be implied.
I worry about the message that boys get about many things but the whole aggression thing is just hideous. One of DS1's friends told me the other day that 'boys don't cry and if they do, they are wusses' (in the context of a football injury). FFS.

I didn't read the thread though, so it sounds as if I might be giving them the benefit of the doubt too much.

Queenmab I regularly wonder the same thing. Why do these "nothing special" men think they're so much better than me and have the authority to talk down to me. I am obviously much more intelligent than them if they bother to listen to what I say, but they never do because they just criticise and walk/ride/drive away.

While we're all suitable outraged anyway, look what just popped up on my FB newsfeed. I'm just not sure where to start with all the things wrong with this.

Why Women Cry. Watch her eyes

A little boy asked his mother, "Why are you crying?" "Because I'm a woman," she told him. I don't understand," he said. His Mom just hugged him and said, "And you never will."

Later the little boy asked his father, "Why does mother seem to cry for no reason?" All women cry for no reason," was all his dad could say.

The little boy grew up and became a man, still wondering why women cry. Finally he put in a call to God. When God got on the phone, he asked, "God, why do women cry so easily?"

God said: "When I made the woman she had to be special.

I made her shoulders strong enough to carry the weight of the world, yet gentle enough to give comfort.

I gave her an inner strength to endure childbirth and the rejection that many times comes from her children.

I gave her a hardness that allows her to keep going when everyone else gives up, and take care of her family through sickness and fatigue without complaining.

I gave her the sensitivity to love her children under any and all circumstances, even when her child has hurt her very badly.

I gave her strength to carry her husband through his faults and fashioned her from his rib to protect his heart.

I gave her wisdom to know that a good husband never hurts his wife, but sometimes tests her strengths and her resolve to stand beside him unfalteringly.

And finally, I gave her a tear to shed. This is hers exclusively to use whenever it is needed."

"You see my son," said God, "the beauty of a woman is not in the clothes she wears, the figure that she carries, or the way she combs her hair.

The beauty of a woman must be seen in her eyes, because that is the doorway to her heart - the place where love resides."

DC's sex ed thing in school is called Sex and Relationship Education so I hope they cover relationship. So far (for young ones) they talked about names of parts and also about stereotyping, so I hope they will talk more about relationship for the older primary kids.

DS2 told me that his school mates said only girls cry but he thought that was stupid.

Bleugh.

That is such a load of shite. Especially creepy about 'a good husband never hurts his wife, but sometimes tests her strengths and her resolve to stand beside him unfalteringly'.

Er, no, that would be an abusive dickwad. Easy mistake.

OMG.
I truly don't know what to say…

My mother would love that and totally identify with it.

Basically: "Women, you can expect everyone to treat you like shit, but at least you can cry about it!"

LordCopper, it's called 'Sexual Health' here (Scotland) - I'll await what he reports back tonight with bated breath.

"Women, you can expect everyone to treat you like shit, but at least you will have the strength to take it"

I do find the 'men don't cry' thing awful. I grew up with a dad who'd cry when he was sad (you know, like a normal person) and DH is from a culture where men cry. But I was chatting with some mates this weekend about this - we all grew up together so I know their parents, and one of their dads has recently had therapy to help him with his emotions because he is so convinced that men crying is something to be repressed, it was starting to affect his mental state.

Annie I've seen that and it gave me the rage.

I don't understand," he said. His Mom just hugged him and said, "And you never will."

Well, he fucking won't if you don't fucking explain, will he?

Later the little boy asked his father, "Why does mother seem to cry for no reason?" All women cry for no reason," was all his dad could say.

His dad is a fuckwit.

The little boy grew up and became a man, still wondering why women cry. Finally he put in a call to God. When God got on the phone, he asked, "God, why do women cry so easily?"

I would say God, if you believe in God, gave you brains so you could think. Fucking look and think.

I made her shoulders strong enough to carry the weight of the world, yet gentle enough to give comfort.

Right. Woman's responsibility to comfort the world that men fucked up, is it?

I gave her an inner strength to endure childbirth and the rejection that many times comes from her children.

And men don't suffer from rejection from children, do they? Is it because their lives have things more important in them, while women's lives are lived for children?

I gave her a hardness that allows her to keep going when everyone else gives up, and take care of her family through sickness and fatigue without complaining.

Man flu.

I gave her strength to carry her husband through his faults and fashioned her from his rib to protect his heart. I gave her wisdom to know that a good husband never hurts his wife, but sometimes tests her strengths and her resolve to stand beside him unfalteringly.

LTB. And how about making men a bit special, like teaching them not to hurt other people? Eh eh eh God?

And finally, I gave her a tear to shed. This is hers exclusively to use whenever it is needed."

Yeah. And that's why men don't fucking cry.

"You see my son," said God, "the beauty of a woman is not in the clothes she wears, the figure that she carries, or the way she combs her hair. The beauty of a woman must be seen in her eyes, because that is the doorway to her heart - the place where love resides."

Right then. A woman's worth is in the love she gives and the sacrifices she makes.

All that swearing from me. So unladylike.

Oh yes, it goes for far beyond just crying: men cannot show a weakness without being a 'lesser' man, they have to win, they have to be strong and right and if they do have a chink in their armour they are 'weak'.

I know I'd be terrified and even more angry if I were raising girls, but I feel quite strongly that the patriarchy is damaging to all.

Tsk, tsk, Copper

I love that version, upto.

My kind of women

I am wasting a morning off on random internet wanderings - bliss!

Urm, hate to do this to you Pacific, but that article comes off the back of [http://therealbenhopper.com/Projects/Natural-Beauty/1/thumbs/ this]], which is basically just some weirdo male photographer thinking he's being all cutting edge and challenging beauty norms by photographing underweight mostly-white typical models who happen to have armpit hair instead of actually taking pictures of, you know, an interesting variety of women. I think there may even have been a thread about in on here - I know I debated it somewhere when it came out, but it may have been on feminist FB groups.