Feminist Pub VII - Chat, questions, random thoughts too small for a thread ...

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

Just setting this up while we finish off the last few posts on the old thread. Come in and pull up a bar stool!

Brilliant.

and again the comments

Think I've just heard Alan Carr do a DV joke

Don't mind me, folks, I just need to curl up in the corner for a while and rock gently. Lewis' Law has defeated me today.

Oh, no. Sorry to hear that, annie. May I proffer copious quantities of virtual booze?

really - oh? Do I want to ask?

Thanks LRD, but do you have any real booze?

Brace yourselves, I am about to unburden myself. What follows is more for my benefit than yours, please indulge me.

What boggles my brain is that for all that we truly believe in feminism, liberalism, atheism, equality etc etc, there are people out there who believe just as strongly in the opposite. And they, in their very hearts, believe that women belong at home, that abortion is murder, that foreigners are will destroy our way of life, that god wants men to dominate women. They aren't just being obtuse, they absolutely believe it. They gather in groups just like we do, and discuss these things and agree with each other, like we do.

We truly believe that we're right and they're wrong. They truly believe that same thing.

Sometimes I wonder if I'm being supremely arrogant to be so sure that I'm the one who is right. I try to apply the logic that what I fight for is in the best interests of as many people as possible. Not every single person will benefit, sure... someone will always lose out when change happens. But the freedoms I work for don't involve denying freedom to anyone else. When the humanists say that feminists should be working towards equal rights for everyone instead of just women and that feminism is sexist, I need to remind myself that until I found this forum I used to spout that same misguided bullshit. And that they, as I didn't, just don't really understand what feminism is about.

But there are so many opposing views, all with some truth at their core, even if it's just a small truth outweighed by ignorance, fear and hatred. So many people who refuse to listen to anyone else. Who refuse to consider the bigger picture and can only view the world through the narrow lens of themselves and their own immediate experience.

I know the world has got so much better. I know it's getting better still. I have to believe it's two steps forwards, one step back, rather than the other way around. But there's still so far to go, so much to do, and for all that we're shouting out our truth, there are millions of voices shouting their own different truths alongside us; against us. Sometimes it's hard to imagine how we'll ever truly be heard.

Yeah. It is incredibly depressing. I spend so much time surrounded by people who do get it - or who, if they don't, are basically good people who don't believe the opposite - I forget about this. And then I meet someone who is adamant feminism is evil or whatever. It is horrible.

Right, must go to bed. I'm avoiding it because I slightly don't want tomorrow to happen. But I need the sleep cos I'm singing a rather large solo part at my choir's concert tomorrow night in the local cathedral (shameless self-promotion) and I'm scared. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm a massive diva and like nothing better than performing for an audience - the bigger the better. But this is the biggest thing I've ever done and I'm having a massive case of imposter syndrome.

The fun bit is that I'm singing a part written for a boy tenor, and in the score it says "this part must not be sung by a woman". Ha ha!

Good luck!

Just two words: Ally Fogg.

Need I say more. He's exactly what Annie is describing.

I have similar thoughts Annie. Especially when these other groups use similar arguing techniques to feminists. I sometimes have to remind myself that these groups are actually trying to oppress us (or other marginalised groups) not the other way round. And that's not because feminism/feminists are doing anything wrong but because these groups turn it back on us. Make us seem unreasonable. Gaslight us. Don't recognise power structures. And really believe this shit! And more importantly make others believe it too.

It is incredibly frustrating.

And good luck Annie! Sounds amazing (if incredibly nerve-racking!)

Thanks for the good luck wishes. Only one of my friends has wished me luck, and I'm feeling sad about that. I know it's only really important to me, and people have their own busy lives, and even that I'm being needy and self-piying, but it hurts a bit to have something so huge in my life go largely ignored and unacknowledged.

Wow! Good luck Annie. And good on you for subverting the 'no women' rule.

Reminds me a bit of how Pulp always used to print 'please don't read these lyrics whilst listening to the music' on their cd sleeves, and I did, but always felt a bit subversive. Jarvis would be very cross.

Good luck Annie . It sounds like my worst nightmare to be honest, but I'm assuming you want to do it and will enjoy it once you're doing it. I'm glad you're ignoring the "no women" rule, if you're the best person to sing it then why should it be sung by a boy?

Good luck Annie.

Who is AllyFogg? I've seen him/ her mentioned but have no clue. OK I know I could google but I bet someone here would be able to point me to the best link...

He's a journalist purporting to be a feminist ally but likes to pit women against women, is completely unaware of his own privilege and actively fights for the MRA corner. So basically a liar and a gaslighter.

Hope that's not too blunt for you Basil

Here's a great take down on his latest fuckwittery julietoosty.wordpress.com/2014/06/06/say-my-name/

Good luck, annie! I bet you will be brilliant (and PMSL at 'must not be sung by a woman'. Oh really?)

Must not be sung by a woman or the composer's penis would fall off?

basil don't google him. It will only induce the rage. He would call himself a feminist or feminist ally but he is all about teh menz. He sucks up air on the Guardian CiF, not sure if he is published in the actual paper much.

Good luck Annie

Good luck Annie.

And what is it with "cool" women who insist they don't care if random men see them half dressed and imply you are being stupid to care about that?

Because they are arseholes calmet?

Did you see the thread about the bloke who insisted on taking his daughter in to the women's locker rooms? We were all prudes for being thinking it was inappropriate... because in other countries naked shared saunas are the done thing

so because in a different culture where people are raised differently they do different things... it's prudish when the other culture don't do the same.

Get your head round that.

Yes I saw that. I really don't understand those women at all.

I think because they have not encountered creepy behaviour by men, they are in denial about it. The main reason they don't encounter the behaviour is that they don't actually get undressed in front of random men.