This is what misogyny and male entitlement leads to.

[BriarRainbowshimmer]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2638049/7-dead-drive-shooting-near-UC-Santa-Barbara.html

22 yo man murders 7 people as revenge for women not sleeping with him.

"Why are girls sexually attracted to obnoxious, brutish men instead of sophisticated gentlemen such as myself?"

I actually just laughed honey.

"Yes, and that would be the very rich at the top as Im sure you'll agree."

You are sure I'll agree?! That's what I just said to you. You've just said back to me, what I've said to you three times and you've chosen to ignore.

This is a truly bizarre conversation. I need a lie down...

It was a sorority house he tried to get into not a frat house.

"Yes, neither here nor there to the fact its more common for worse off women to be raped."

What evidence do you have for this assertion? I've never heard this.

AF, no one is excusing anything, merely stating that he didn't actually kill any of the people he always banged on about hating.

"A 9-5 job at tesco pays the same for anyone, man or woman. You are clearly discussing the all over gender pay gap and a lot of that is to do with the fact women physically give birth to children (the fault of biology, not men) and often raise them (you could have a point with this part). This leads many of them to then go back to work that is part time/lower paid, leading to an all over gender pay gap. "

You need to ask yourself why society has been organised to ensure that mothers are dumped with all the childcare even when the immediate need for them to do most of it has passed and why the work that is part time and flexible, is low paid and low status. Do the reading.

Koala what are you talking about? You never stated anything about the 'rich at the top'. Infact someone was saying that middle class women in the UK are 'vulnerable' which is a load of shite.

Does seem to be the case that poverty is a factor in sexual assaults but the article states that women under 10K are three times as likely to be raped than women over 20K. Three times less is still a very high number of richer women who are victims.

"as its clear as daylight to anyone with half a brain they are privileged as hell and have nothing whatsoever to feel hard done by about."

You have no idea what people on this board have experienced. Just because they are calmer and more polite than you, doesn't mean they are as privileged as hell.

Also, if you are a feminist as you claim, you need to be comparing middle class women's lives with those of middle class men; not with working class women, working class men, Syrian men etc.

And if you are a feminist you need to compare a Syrian man's life not with that of an upper class Western woman, but with that of a Syrian woman - his wife or sister.

You really do need to do the reading. And it would be nice if you would stop ranting offensively.

AskBasil its probably more to do with the fact many women decide for themselves it is they who wants to look after their children, and that someone has to do it at the end of the day. The government has issues new provisions for working parents that should help some women in such a dire position.

Its not only mothers who do low paid, low status work. Plenty of lower class men do it aswell. You do the reading.

22honey do you think the (mostly middle class) women whom John Worboys the taxi driver raped, weren't vulnerable to his predation because they were rich?

'Just because they are calmer and more polite than you'

I wouldnt say anyone on this thread has been particularly polite to me either. I am very calm thanks, even if I dont come across as so.

AskBasil of course they were vulnerable....how common is 'stranger rape' may I ask?

Not very (shouldnt be mistaken for 'it doesnt matter', before you try and put words in my mouth)

You could say men are just as vulnerable as similar things have happened to them.

You need to re-read Koala's posts, 22honey. She has mentioned the elite at the top of society at least 3 times.

I think I've been remarkably restrained, actually.

At 20:29

"And it's not victim mentality. I'm talking about not blaming other poor people (like all the recent anti-Islam stuff in the media lately, immigrants, etc) for what is being caused by a tiny percentage of people who are in position of the vast majority of the wealth and power."

At 21:46

"I'm not calling myself a victim or a trying to be a martyr. I was trying to explain that I think that the people who are benefiting from keeping the poorest poor and women from being seen as equals are the ones we should be directing the vitriol at."

At 21:59

"Yes honey I know.

That's my whole point. We should be directing our vitriol at the people who are actively working to keep us this way.

You know one of the biggest ways they do that? They turn us against eachother. We end up hating foreigners, benefit cheats, muslims, other women, etc.

Oh but who don't we hate? The ones who are keeping us poor and inequal."

This is what I'm talking about. The three times I mentioned the rich at the top.

You seem so intent on arguing that you missed the fact we were arguing the same point.

Yes MrsTerry and I will admit my mistake in saying that it is 'rare' for richer women to be raped. I imagine it is not 'rare' in the true sense of the word but my point was that the risk for worse off women is higher.

This is something I discovered when actually researching feminist issues, so its quite telling most of the middle class feminists on this board have never heard of such a thing.

I am struggling with the turn this thread has taken.

A bunch of people have been shot dead, by a man who said, well we know what he said.

And now people are being asked randomly to accept that wealthy women rarely get raped and there is no such thing as the gender pay gap?

This is surreal.

When I was growing up, there was a warning out as a man on the tube was throwing acid over blonde women. I thought of it when I heard this story. This sort of thing does happen, time and again, not usually on a scale like this though. Maybe we could talk about why this happens, why men at the low end of the scale randomly shout at / harass women they don't know on the street, and at the other end go out to cause them serious damage. It goes on in all societies, as far as I know, men randomly abusing women. Why this happens bears thinking about.

Although I guess if all women in the world got hold of a platinum credit card and hung it around their neck to identify them as "not poor" it would all stop, right?

Koala, you never specifically mention well off people though, you actually give the impression the group you are talking about is men.

I would agree, but it is rich men (not necessarily white either!)along with some equally rich women. Poor working class men arn't putting these prophecies in place.

Why do you keep saying we're middle class?

Lovesardines you spectacularly misinterpreted. No one said there is no such thing as a gender pay gap.

Because a large amount of women on mumsnet, and feminists in the UK are middle class. If you don't believe this to be the case please show some sort of proof, until then I will carry on believing it because that is what experience of both has shown me.

You need to ask yourself why childcare is not valued as work Honey. Who decided that bringing up the next generation didn't need paying?

And you haven't answered the question about why the workplace is structured the way it is. It's not because privileged middle class women structured it.

Also I find your assertion that poor women are more likely to be abused than rich women fucking offensive; working class men are not more violent than middle class men, they don't have a worse sense of entitlement than middle class men do. On the contrary, studies show that working class men are more likely to do more housework and childcare than middle class men and we know that domestic abuse is not a class issue, I don't understand your fury at middle class white women (which you erroneously assume everyone on this board who disagrees with you is) while at the same time slagging off working class men.

Don't mistake people talking about misogyny first as their only caring about white, Western women, 22. I live somewhere where there is a real, very horrible issue with the rapes and murders of indigenous women and prostitutes. I spend more time talking about that, marching, writing, signing petitions than I do in my ivory tower, quilting quotes from Emmeline Pankhurst onto silk hankies, honestly. We can all be part of the same movement while highlighting different parts of it.

I read this yesterday. Might interest some of you t.co/6JyOAu7tIX

honey, everyone on this thread has been surprisingly polite to you

such crass ignorance as you are displaying is usually very poorly tolerated here

I think people are making allowances for your young age and the well documented (by yourself) experiences at the hands of misogynist men you have shared here

I am sure you will see this as patronising, but you should be aware of it