TERF

[ReallyFuckingFedUp]

So I have seen this expression a lot lately... and TERF gets thown out a lot when feminists are discussing things that are only capable of affecting biologically female women.

And I just can't get my head around it tbh. I don't think feminism should exclude people I think it helps everyone. I get really upset when white feminists forget about WOC or Lesbians, or other minority groups because the point of feminism is to make women's lives better. SO if there an issue that is unique to black women (for example) it is still all of our issue and should be dealt with by all feminist.

So if trans women want in on feminism why do they think can exclude the majority of women by saying we can't discuss our issues? And if trans people want to be accepted and have their rights championed by feminism is that fair since the majority of feminists aren't also suffering those same problems? Is it not a huge double standard?

Abortion rights and prenatal care and contraceptive health, vaginal rape. Are these things off the table now for feminism?

Am I getting it wrong, missing something? It feels to me like male privilege, telling women what they can and can't talk about..and doing so in a way where they actually feel guilty as though they have done something wrong.

X-post with Really there! Took me ages to write that.

The scolding tone of that New Statesman post made me shudder. Men taking on their ancient role of keeping women in line. No acknowledgement that women's experiences and viewpoints actually matter.

very little actual analysis of the book
bit of an oversight in a book review

Ah, but you don't have to analyse or argue when women say bad things. You just have to say they are nasty (use emotive language like 'ugly' or, of course, 'bigot') and tell them off.

Actually, that's probably why it reads so horribly - the implication that he doesn't even HAVE to give reasons, we will just take him at his word that's it's all wrong because he's a man and we're just women.

Yy Tunip.

This is just fabulous.

www.plymouthherald.co.uk/Marine-spied-changing-room-girl-11-mirror/story-21207079-detail/story.html

Why cubicles are not sufficient to protect women and girls in mixed sex areas. If it becomes a free for all we'll definitely see more things like this.

tunip very good!

notagaintrevor What the actual fuck?I do wonder why actually they don't make proper walled cubicles when mixed sex changing rooms are made though... Also there is nothing stopping someone using the changing room and leaving a hidden camera is there?

Cost us a major factor, not just in installing the cubicles but you would need to change the drainage. They would be much more time consuming, and therefore expensive, to clean. There is a safety issue if someone slips on the wet floor and blocks the door, with floor to ceiling cubicles you would not be able to see that they had gone down and no one would be able to climb over the top to help them.

Also, think of the effect on women from societies were it is shameful to be seen by another man. They are already far more likely to be marginalised from wider society and would restricted from life even further.

What does non-binary mean in this context?

Sorry, bit of a thick question, but I've heard this term used and I don't actually know what it means.

That nobody conforms to the exact gender binary.

Men are from mars and like to hunt bears and wear blue.

Women are from venus and like "naughty" chocolate and pink.

Or at least that's how I've read it.

I think in this context Basil, it means that gender isn't just masculine and feminine i.e. there aren't just two genders. But a whole host of (presumably) identifiable genders, rather than people just being, well people and not prescribing to any gender.

Do people call themselves "non-binary", or is it just used to describe prescriptive gender roles?

scallops I think that the article Tunip linked to that their definition of non binary was "just people" and that we are all Non binary.

OH wait, I see what you mean. That her definition was in response to other people who identify as "non binary" and their definition.
Sorry

Yes sorry I understood that. I thought Basil was asking about what people who purposefully identified as "non-binary" meant by it, not what the article eloquently pointed out non-binary should actually mean. IYSWIM (and I'm tying myself up in knots here so don't worry if you don't!!)

x-post!

It's nice to see such an open discussion on this that hasn't been railroaded.

It's pure madness that we are expected to accept male born individuals as women even when it puts us at a disadvantage. It's not just the safety issue (which is a huge issue), it's also wiping women's achievements out of the history books and competing against us unfairly in sport.

First female navy seal
Female mountain biking champion
Female college basketball player

Agreed Queen

Here is another picture of the basketball player:

thehangoutsportsshow.com/tag/gabrielle-ludwig/

Also, look at this:

www.nytimes.com/2014/06/08/business/riches-come-to-women-as-ceos-but-few-get-there.html?_r=0

A woman is in the top 10 highest paid execs. Oh wait, it's a transwoman. Marissa Meyer is the highest paid woman at number 34.

hmm 6 foot 6 ex and ex navy. And he is allowed to play basketball with teenage girls. That seems like a really good idea.

Surely there needs to be some clear defining of why we separate things? Either it's to do with sex and because women are physically different to men in which case, 'how you feel on the inside' shouldn't matter. Or we are saying gender has stopped certain people from reaching their full potential...but in that case an adult man who has suddenly swapped gender still hasn't suffered the way a woman has.

IN every scenerio they get the advantage.

Yep, transwoman doing alright for themselves and that being labelled as women's accomplishments excuses the patriarchy's inequality. Transgender women being counted as women in any statistic is really unhelpful - trans women are just as likely to commit violent crimes as anyone else with a Y chromosome but their crimes get lumped into our stats giving credence to the idea that women can be just as violent as men.

RRFU I think this whole area needs to be discussed properly. The UK legislation has some exemptions for sports activities for transsexuals, even after genital surgery and hormone treatments. As we are moving into this issue of gender identity rather than transsexuals, I agree we need to talk about why certain things are separate. Statistics is a serious issue here. The numbers of women in certain fields is very small and the inclusion of transwomen can definitely move the needle in counting diversity statistics. There is a surprisingly large number of transwomen working in the software industry. Someone else counted the numbers of transwomen who signed this open letter and figured that about 30% of the signatories work in STEM jobs:

freethoughtblogs.com/zinniajones/2014/04/open-letter-100-trans-women-stand-against-calpernia-addams-and-andrea-james/

Also, there is a senior engineer at Twitter who is a transwoman and has been charged with rape (Daily Mail link):

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2602740/Transgender-female-Twitter-engineer-charged-raping-estranged-wife.html

This person is also a member of an organisation for women in engineering. When asked about advice for women who want to get into functional programming, this senior engineer at twitter advised:

It's hard for me to answer questions like that. Somebody was interviewing me for a pilot blog and they asked me the same thing about women getting into flying, and it's just like–I don't really have any advice, just fucking do it. Don't let anybody tell you no.

Just fucking do it the privilege is blinding.