TERF

[ReallyFuckingFedUp]

So I have seen this expression a lot lately... and TERF gets thown out a lot when feminists are discussing things that are only capable of affecting biologically female women.

And I just can't get my head around it tbh. I don't think feminism should exclude people I think it helps everyone. I get really upset when white feminists forget about WOC or Lesbians, or other minority groups because the point of feminism is to make women's lives better. SO if there an issue that is unique to black women (for example) it is still all of our issue and should be dealt with by all feminist.

So if trans women want in on feminism why do they think can exclude the majority of women by saying we can't discuss our issues? And if trans people want to be accepted and have their rights championed by feminism is that fair since the majority of feminists aren't also suffering those same problems? Is it not a huge double standard?

Abortion rights and prenatal care and contraceptive health, vaginal rape. Are these things off the table now for feminism?

Am I getting it wrong, missing something? It feels to me like male privilege, telling women what they can and can't talk about..and doing so in a way where they actually feel guilty as though they have done something wrong.

What the fuckerry is that donkey?! That's infuriating.

Fuck it. Take "woman" of the stalls. Seriously. If this is just some sort of linguistic issue... get rid of the word woman. I don't want to cause an issue for women with penises, so to avoid confusion, let's just put a picture of a vulva on the door. Is that Ok, are we all happy with that?

is what protects women*

I'm not sure what you mean, notagain but my concern is about women and the harm caused to women. Lots of men are at risk of male violence, that's not a problem for women to solve and certainly not by throwing open the doors to female safe space.

On your point above about not going swimming, there is a plaque in Mornington Crescent marking the site of the first women's public loo. I used to roll my eyes when I saw it but when I gave it a bit more thought, it became clear that the availability of safe space was a very important step to enable women to leave home and participate in public life. We are seriously in danger of closing off opportunities in public life for women and it is so-called feminists who are leading the charge. It's astonishing.

I saw this on twitter:

twitter.com/GIDWatch/status/474536743069577217/photo/1

followed up by lots of women and "feminists" defending the person who posted this saying the person was provoked and the woman deserved it.

I think notagain was agreeing with you flora.

Can you imagine how stressfull it must have to go out and not be able to use a public toilet? If you had an emergency, or were unwell. or had after 12 children and no pelvic floor.

Apologies if it was not clear Flora, I'm just pointing out the contradictory nature of many activist statements. If transwomen need protection then why do activists not protest for secure spaces for transwomen in the current climate, opening up women's spaces for all places everyone at increased risk. If femininity is innate then I would expect the majority of women to understand that. The cis men won't wear a dress argument does not wash, in addition there is no requirement for dresses or anything else, we're told simply feeling like a woman should be good enough no matter how they present. So we cannot question anyone without being transphobic .

I just hate the whole situation, I worked with and am still friends with a lovely transwoman. She's kind, respectful and just wants to get on with her life quietly and free from abuse. Instead she has had to distance herself from many groups where she may find support due to the adversarial nature and flat out women hating which seems to abound. But when it comes down to the fight I have to fight on the side of women and children that need protection from violent men.

Gah, is saying 'violence against women' another way of sanitising language so as not to upset men?

I don't think transactivists (and I mean transactivists, not all transpeople) have given much of a thought as to the repercussions and risks to girls and women. Because that isn't their focus. Which should give pause for thought considering that they claim to be women....

It's mostly about narcissistic validation. AKA men's rights over women's rights.

"have given much of a thought as to the repercussions and risks to girls and women. Because that isn't their focus. Which should give pause for thought considering that they claim to be women...."

Just been flicking around twitter and reading the #NoUnexpectedPenises tag is giving me the rage. I was 'properly' raped as well as being 'not really' raped -well maybe but he was a friend and I must have led him on, WHY DO YOU WANT TO RUIN HIS LIFE raped, yeah that sort of crap. But I should just fucking get over it as women have penises too and I'm clearly a hideous bigoted transphobe for not wanting male bodies in female only spaces, do I not care about their feelings??

I've been reading Gia Milanovich's feed and it is giving me the rage even more, she has boy children therefore she has no right to not want strange penises In her presence, she is married to a man with a penis therefore she has no right to not want other penises in her presence! It is so dripping in rape culture and victim blaming and it makes me sick. Someone even links Brian Cox cos that'll tell the little bigot, I'm sure he came straight home to give her some discipline. It is the old you've had sex with someone who was not your owner husband, therefore you will shag anyone you dirty ho and cannot be raped. You married him therefore he owns you and can do what ever he wants you have given him unconditional consent forever regardless of feelings.

It makes me so sick that women support this shit and dare to call themselves feminists.

Sorry, I should not have come online after a few drinks as I should know how much this crap upsets me. The horrific double standards just get to me so much.

I really hope I haven't upset other women as I actually care about how you all feel.

Off to make a cup of chamomile and get some sleep.

notagain now I see what you mean, sorry for being slow on the uptake. I'd agree with Beach that validation is driving this as much or more than safety concerns. Validation is at the root of most trans activism. This separates it from every other social justice movement. Gay people don't demand I validate their gayness, nor black people their blackness. That would be silly, they know that they are who they are. Other social justice movements targeted people with power to right their wrongs, they did not exercise activism by screaming at women, particularly lesbians and radfems on social media or blocking other people from discussing their oppression.

The levels of rage on display are shocking. And these are people who are supposedly no risk to women and girls?

notagain sorry cross post. I'm sorry that happened to you. I read to hashtag too and found it rage inducing. One woman actually said any men should be in shelters etc unless one of them had actually raped one of the women there. It's the logical extension to the argument but you would think someone would say, "hang on, maybe I should think about this" rather than ploughing on.

"When" I think that's right. That type of trans activist does not want any separate space or compromise because that denies their desire for validation (and, in some cases, the exhibitionism / sexual fetish).

But we are losing this fight at the moment. I heard a university near me are discussing whether to introduce gender neutral toilets.

calmet mine already has one. They used the ladies, obviously.

Obviously. Women already have to queue to use the toilets, why not take a toilet away from them as well.

I don't actually have an issue with them turning a man's toilet into a gender neutral one. But the university near me is discussing turning all the toilets into gender neutral ones. Hopefully they will have to back down and leave some women's toilets.

But on the plus side, it means the men will have to queue too.

Actually no-one will be happy, because the men will be annoyed about the queues and the women will be annoyed that the toilets end up covered in wee.

I read that in the UK, the law is where alcohol is served in a bar or club, there needs to be separate female and male toilets.

When toilets go unisex they don't leave urinals do they?

"Colleen" sounds like a rapist to me and has no concept of respecting boundaries, I wouldn't let my kids anywhere near him in the locker room.

Thank you for your kind words, it really upset me reading that crap last night. Having voluntarily had sex with a man once does not give the world a free for all in my knickers.

I read that comment too flora can you imagine bringing a rapist home to live with your family? Let's see how far you get explaining to SS that he's not actually raped any of your children yet so it's fine. No one would dispute that is a ridiculous stance, but then women are not people with the right to autonomy so who cares.

Women need safe space from men, end of, no discussion it is a fact. It is not women's fault the blame lies solely with the men that commit violence and the very many men that condone, minimise and ignore it.

Flora said On your point above about not going swimming, there is a plaque in Mornington Crescent marking the site of the first women's public loo. I used to roll my eyes when I saw it but when I gave it a bit more thought, it became clear that the availability of safe space was a very important step to enable women to leave home and participate in public life. We are seriously in danger of closing off opportunities in public life for women and it is so-called feminists who are leading the charge. It's astonishing.
calmet said I read that in the UK, the law is where alcohol is served in a bar or club, there needs to be separate female and male toilets.

I'm often struck by the crossover between women's and disabled rights - no such law is enforced for accessible toilets
so yes, I've been effectively barred from several events

julia I wasn't aware there wasn't a law providing for that

not needing accessible toilets/buses/pavements etc I never noticed how crap services were for people until I started pushing a stroller 3 years ago. It's vile and unfortunately the majority of us not needing theses things (like myself ) won't notice.

there is a law but no viable method of enforcing it so its a serving suggestion more than an actual law