Is sex working ever 'acceptable'

[neverthebride]

Hi everyone, this is my first post on this board so please be gentle (!) but I'd really appreciate some views.

I have a friend who is a sex worker. Very 'exclusive' kind of thing, earns a lot of money etc. I've known her for a long time but it's only recently that she's confided in me that that's how she earns her living.

I've known several sex workers in the past (I work in MH) and those people have been at the 'street level' and were invariably drug addicts and/or very damaged individuals who were abused in so many ways in their personal lives and as sex workers and would not have been sex workers if they felt they had other options.

My friend has apparently been doing sex work for a long time. She is highly educated, has no history of abuse in her life and seems to have made an informed choice to go into sex work as a 'business'. Her clients are big-spenders and she works in an environment where all possible safety precautions are taken. She does not do anything that she doesn't want to do and has made an enormous amount of money (which she admits she is 'addicted to').

I'm really torn on this issue which I didn't think I would be!. On one hand,I think HER experience might be positive but it's perpetuating the idea that sex and bodies are for sale and I absolutely disagree with that and know that the overwhelming experience of sex workers is just horrific.

On the other hand, I think she's an adult woman who's educated and informed and who am I (or anyone else for that matter) to say that she can't make the decision about what she does with her own body?.

I won't not be her friend because of her choices but I feel so uncomfortable with either of my thought processes. Help!

'And They Shower Beforehand Too!"

If they didn't the sex worker would either demand they showered first or refuse to see them. What were you thinking?'

I think your missing the point. Its about the entitlement that a woman (whose usually much younger than the punter, and more attractive!) should genuinely enjoy the sex purely because they have showered. Its disrespectful in so many ways, odd how you can't see that. Some men can shower and still have an utterly vile off putting personal smell. There is so much more to how you feel about each individual punter than whether they have showered or not.

When your a brilliant actress in bed who can switch off easily you will make a good prostitute.

Yes, I imagine they would be Sabrina and London isnt a prostitute friendly place I don't think- there is a ridiculous amount of competition which leads many women to sell sex even independently for practically nothing, add that to the huge cost of living down there and many of them are practically slaves.

I do wonder how many murders of sex workers are down to domestic violence...as I said it was a shocking amount of women in an abusive relationship on the brothel scene, something I never witnessed when I worked in several different hairdressers.

'How would you like it if you were in a high paid job, but it happened to be a job that offended the morals of some people '

Its not about the morals of some people. Its about the inherent exploitation and sickening power inbalance that is abundant on the game. Why on earth do you think most sex workers (even at well respected, amazingly decorated and furnished reputable parlours with 100s of good reviews online) are poor, drug addicted, have been in care, are in an abusive relationship, are single mothers or from poor countries?

And why most clients are middle class, drive nice cars and are quite clearly well off especially if they can afford to fork out escort prices? I remember my neighbour being amazed at the standard of cars that would regularly park up outside my shithole council flat!

Yes theres a few older more middle class women who usually have sacked off a high paying long hours job to do escorting- and the reason for that is? They want/need more time with their children but don't want to have to downgrade their kids lifestyle too much. I'd say thats another gender issue, tbh.

22Honey - I don't know of the stats on domestic violence, but yes, I would imagine that plays a part. In a fair few cases, the 'boyfriend' is the pimp too.

I totally agree with your last post, too.

"No matter what time of day or night I come on here to post, I always get a very quick (sometimes instant) response from the same people."

Your own responses are pretty damn speedy, and there's only one of you, sunshine.

I know he's banned but when I clicked on that image, I was expecting it to be a feminist being rude about a prostitute. Instead it was a feminist being rude about the Amnesty stance.

Not very bright, Vo.

"a feminist being rude about the Amnesty stance."

And wishing rape on people, just to add.

Back already, Vo?

Wishing that pimps and johns experience being prostituted, I think you will find, Vo.

I'd say it would be practically impossible for a well meaning punter to accurately seek out a prostitute who had no issues whatsoever, was well educated etc as you simply cannot tell from adverts and two of the most popular girls on the Manchester parlour scene one was always coming in covered in bruises as I said above and the other was a prolific drinker and cocaine abuser always off her face in work (she got sacked from one place eventually for it) who lived a really chaotic lifestyle and was in a very abusive relationship (I swear they nearly all were!!).

They were still extremely popular with 100s of great reviews online because they were young, slim, good looking and did practically every sex act going 'enthusiastically'. Both had been doing the job since before they were 18 (they were both about 25 at the time I was working with them) I actually saw punters who knew and gossiped about these girls lives inc the domestic violence and still didnt see a problem at all with paying them for sex. Its the mindset if the girl is good at her job and enthusiastic nothing else matters, its her free choice and she must be loving it. Its like some people also think good looking well groomed people can never be poor, vulnerable or have problems.

That is awful, honey. Truly awful.

Honey, that is awful. And I'd like to hear what vof, or whatevr his nest name will be, has to say about that. I'm also shocked by the NZ 'consumer protection legislation' thing Just abhorrent - is a women just so much of a commodity to these men, that suing is a possibility??

On the 'sex-worker' thing - well Douglas Fox calls himself a sex worker, and is neck-deep in the IUSW and his partner's escort agency. I'd love to know the last time he actually had sex with someone for money. I'm thinking it was a long time ago if ever. He has other means to bring the money in.

Pimps will be Pimps, Douglas Fox

^ terrible typos! Apologies

To be honest - and I'm sure much ot the disgust of the feminists - I'm rather ambivalent. I have found myself walking, quite frequently, through the Red Light district of the city that I lived in at the time but it was always pretty evident which ladies were offering sex and which weren't, so I was never approached. I'm sure I'd be less ambivalent if I found DH was using prostitutes (at least whilst he's been with me, but I'm not sure what reaction I'd have if it had been before that).

I have, I suppose, held the rather naive view that the reason men use Escorts (as opposed to street walkers) is that they are generally very good looking and relatively young. For whatever reason, our society values youth and good looks - shallow as that is. So I've never thought it was about an exercising of power. I've always thought it was more about experiencing something you wouldn't normally. Like Mondeo man may occasionally pay to rent a Lamborghini for the weekend just to experience something different, something beautiful (if a Lamborghini is what you can call beautiful). Maybe I'm not explaining well but my naive view has been that it's more about having the ability to afford something away from the dull and mundane; and that the excitement of that is part of the thrill. Frankly, the 'use' of streetwalkers I've never understood. That just screams 'risk' from every standpoint for everyone involved.

The thing I've wondered is why Societies that would term themselves 'advanced' are the ones that generate a demand (need?) for prostitution. Ancient China, the Ancient Greeks, Ancient Egypt, Rome, the Japanese and, since the industrial revolution - or since gaining military strength - 'The West'. These were the Societies that progressed humankind in so many way (Philosophically, Mathatically, Scientifically, Politically, Militarily and - arguably - Societally). And yet it was not so in tribal societies (that were using primitive tools, bows and arrows and so on) - the Native Americans, much of Africa (until 'the white man' arrived of course), Aborigines etc. I couldn't comment on the Aztecs and their ilk - I don't know enough of them. Does prostitution emerge in societies that no longer need simply to survive; that actually do things for 'leisure'? Does it stem from trade (as opposed to barter)? Does it stem from large, organised military complexes?

Goldie, I think that looks are part of it, but a fairly small part. I think a larger part is being able to buy someone else to behave how you want and not have to care about them.

Somewhere upthread there was a question about moral issues. I don't have a moral issue with anyone sleeping with anyone else per se; I do think it's emotionally corrosive, both for the seller and the buyer, to repeatedly have sex that one party doesn't want to be having.

22honey - we may be in the same circles. Did you recently hear about the working girl who died? She worked in a parlour but her employers seriously seriously let her down. Failed to protect her, was letting her get pissed when they knew she had alcohol problems, she was once found passed out and abused. One punter wanted to take her to the hospital but management refused. Absolutely shocking

In the business women need to stick together but here they failed. Big style.

Belle when did this girl die and where was it? The incident where a girl was found dead of a heroin overdose (at home not at the parlour) was in 2011. I actually had a punter I saw quite a few times crying his eyes out about it during a booking, it was really distressing to deal with!

There is a parlour in Bury and Bolton where drug abuse and drinking on site is a normal occurrence and the owners do sod all about it and actively encourage it, they go round procuring girls off the street to work in their parlour under the guise they are helping them to be safer. There have been several cases of workers dying there and elsewhere whilst being employed there, one girl died of cancer and was working whilst terminally ill!

This parlour is not 'reputable' on the scene though so its not like the places I worked (I never worked at that particular one due to the bad reputation and ridiculously low level of pay, however its well known they still get lots of clients, obvious really or theyd have closed down after all these years), where there were still women with drink and drug problems but it wasnt tolerated on the premises being off your face and they had to begrudgingly sack one of their most popular girls eventually for it.

Drink and drug abuse is really common among the girls I found even in reputable parlours smoking weed out the back door was abundant and one thing they did actually tolerate! Loads of dysfunction between employees aswell, I worked with two early 40s russian women, one was a steaming alcoholic and the other went to stay at her home one night as she'd travelled from a long way away and was getting sick of just staying in the brothel and came back to work the next day having been stabbed in the head and needing an ambulance and stitches! The other woman had just gone insane on her for nothing, thankfully other woman was sacked for it. Its definately not like any other workplace!

Women often don't stick together in the business it can be bitchy and competitive and owners are generally out to make money and thats it. Women owners are more sympathetic and generally much much better to work for than male ones, probably doesnt come as any surprise to anyone on here, lol!

'I have, I suppose, held the rather naive view that the reason men use Escorts (as opposed to street walkers) is that they are generally very good looking and relatively young. For whatever reason, our society values youth and good looks - shallow as that is. '

Id say this is a large part of it plus they assume if your an escort earning over £100+ an hour you won't have any of the problems the street girls have. Not always true....but yes good looking young women are in huge demand and its all part of a consumer society 'I want I want'. There are quite a few escorts who arnt particularly young either 32+ who are still popular, lots of men do actually like the 'older' woman and usually give typical reasons for doing so, more experienced, more confident etc.

22honey it was very recently, Arabesque if you know the name.

It's a travesty when the punters are more concerned about the women than their colleagues. :(

I currently work in a parlour and we are family. People might not believe that but we are. We have our ups and downs but honestly, I've never had better friends and a better group of people. We do anything for each other, and we have a laugh and a cry if we need it.

I appreciate a lot of girls don't have this though - it's horrible.

Yeah I know Arabesque, thats the one I was on about! Its got a terrible reputation.

I met lots of great women in the parlours I worked in, its good to be around other people in the same situation as you and who you can relate to, makes the job not as lonely.

Have you been working in the parlour for a long time? As if you have I can see why you consider them family.