Stranger "hits" DD - am I over-reacting?

[rosabud]

My DD is 17. Today she was on the bus on the way home from school (6th form so not in uniform). It was crowded and old people were tutting at her and making it obvious she should give up her seat for them (there were free seats towards the back of the bus - not sure that is relevant). Nomally she would have given up her seat but she was tired, had been in an AS exam which had gone horribly wrong and her back was hurting. Personally, I think she should still have given up her seat.......but don't think that's an excuse for what happened next.

A seat behind her became vacant and, as an old man (in his 70s, she thinks) sat down in it, he hit/slapped her across the shoulder ('quite' hard - but not hard enough to cause injury) and told her that she should give up her seat for an old man next time. DD apologised and tried to explain about the exam and her back - but he did not answer her. Old people continued to tut at her and she sat there and cried!

She should have given up her seat, I think. But I am really angry that a man thinks he had the right to hit/slap her! Would he have done that to an older person like myself? Would he have done that to a teenage boy - I don't think so, surely he would have been too wary of being punched back?!

I am so cross! How dare he?! Am I over-reacting?

Teen girls are PRONE to exaggerating Are you kidding me? Some teen girls, some teen boys, some men, some women.

We are trying to teach our girls and young women that they do not have to put up with unwanted touching, comments or attention. That they have a right to their own bodies. And here we have a thread immediately chastising a young woman, accusing her of exaggerating and basically saying she is wrong and caused the situation. Shows what a long way we have to go. Fucking depressing .

Or a man assaulting a boy, this does happen too as I've said from my experience. I suppose there are still power inequalities older man younger boy, but not a gender issue.

^Oh that's it, teen girl MUST be exaggerating.
No wonder so many teen girls don't report abuse, sexual or otherwise.^

Yeah.

This is crazy. Man was in the wrong, that is a fact. Op's daughter was suffering with a bad back and was sitting in a seat, Clearly an unpopular opinion but I don't think that was wrong at all.
All these people saying she should "get some manners", someone said it before I think, but I think the people tutting because someone has the nerve to sit in a seat allocated for people who need them but happen to be under the age of 80, need a serious lesson.
I suffer with a really bad back (down to a horse riding accident when I was 7) and can't stand for very long at all before being in a lot of pain, so I too am guilty of the crime of being in a seat on a crowded bus, possibly even in the presence of old people!
I've also been yelled at by an old person and informed I "am in the elderly peoples seats" when I was 4 months pregnant and about to pass out.
I am a considerate person and very, very polite, have always made sure my children are polite and have been told many times by total strangers how well mannered they are.
However threads like this drive me crazy, no one has the right to touch anyone else like this man did, and just because someone is oldere doesn't automatically make them hard done by!!

I agree that he wouldn't have done it to a young man or an older woman.

There are elderly men out there with appalling attitudes. I was once on a bus when an older man began haranguing a young woman sitting in a front seat,because she did not get up when an elderly woman got on the bus. The elderly woman immediately found a seat behind, but the man just would not let it go. After several pointed remarks from him, the young woman stood up, showing her 6 month bump and said 'I didn't get up because I am pregnant'. However, the older man did not let it go and went down the 'pregnancy is no excuse for not giving way to your elders', at which point I fairly politely but asssertively told him to cut it out. However, he was still grumbling away at the back of the bus...

I suspect his main issue was probably that she was a young black woman who had not given way for an elderly white woman...

There were other apparently able-bodied people sitting down btw, but it was definitely her he was targeting.

Wtaf the man sounds fucking insane quite frankly! Just because he is "old" doesn't mean he is in more pain/more need than anyone else quite frankly, there could of been younger people on the bus than him with hidden disabilities or chronic illnesses that needed the seat more than him and he could of struck out at one of them, not that it sounds as if he cared seeing as the girl went on to say about bad back etc. I'd report to the police to as he sounds like the entitled type to think he has the right to do this sort of stuff and I know at 17 (when I did have major issues and wouldn't say boo to a goose) I'd have been mortified to and probably reacted the way your daughter did!

Okay I have not had time to read all the posts but to everyone talking about there being 'free ' seats on the bus:
Older people are more likely to be unsteady on their feet than younger people. This is why so many older people end up in hospital with accidents having fallen at home. That is why the designated priority seats for older people are at the front, not the back. These seats were not accessible free seats to anyone less steady on their feet than they used to be.
It is polite to offer your seat to am older person. That person may be perfectly mobile, but unless I don't think we want to live in a world where older people are asked to fill in an intrusive health questionnaire before being offered a seat.

Kins I read that as no one can hit anyone else unless they are hitting a 2 year old or someone who is mentally ill then I finished reading your post!

^^

And this is the reason we have the lovely RTFT phrase.

Sorry, not you slithy. I meant nosleeps post.

There's plenty of younger people that have conditions which may make them unsteady on their feet, and this older man HIT an under 18 just assuming she was fit and healthy, he was completely unreasonable and definitely the police need to be called about him.

nosleep it hasn't been confirmed that DD was sitting in priority seating, just that there were free seats further back from where she was sitting.

Also, there are a fair few generalisations on your post. Priority seating is not just for the elderly, but also for the disabled and pregnant, regardless of age. I would argue that there are probably many elderly people more mobile than some disabled people.

If someone deems they need a seat, regardless if age, then they do not have to offer that seat to anyone else. Different perhaps if they are outright asked to give up that seat.

I don't want to live in a world where people who look fine, have to give a detailed health questionnaire in order to keep the (possibly non priority) seats they are already sat in.

Nor do I want to live in a world where hitting is accepted and in many cases, justified and ignored.

I am pregnant with SPD AND have an underlying hidden health condition which means staying in any given position for too long is agonising. I'm unsteady and in constant pain. I'm also 27 and look the picture of health (and look about 18 which has it's own issues)

I would not offer a seat I had to anyone else.

Does that mean I should have been hit? Does that mean I am rude? Or should I have to fill in an intrusive health questionnaire in order to keep the seat I already had?

I don't think we want to live in a world where it is ok for young girls to be slapped or hit because they have made a perceived etiquette mistake either.

No wonder your daughter was upset. None of us knows what is going on in other peoples lives. I am not getting into a discussion about bus seats. He should not have slapped her that was innapropriate.

My daughter was involved in an incident on a bus. Was serious and extremely distressing the abuser got off the bus. The bus driver (female) would not help her. She phoned the police from the bus. She also called her Dad, myself, her sister, btother in law etc. We all beat the police to the bus station to meet the bus . I noted the bus fleet number on my phone.

The police interviewed her, she is an adult, and declined for anyone else to be with her as she did not want us to hear what she had been subjected to. The police followed the incident up. My daughter saw the CCTV pics from the bus to identify her abuser. The photos were "pin sharp". The police did find the person after a few weeks. I was amazed. It was a female officer apparently they had photographs in the police cars and she recognised him walking along the street.

The police were also able to tell my daughter that the bus driver was being disciplined after they had raised a complaint on her behalf. I was very proud of how she coped with the situation also very sad and angry that she had been in this sityation.

If your daughter wishes to make a complaint then she should be able to. The man may well think this is trivial but he had your daughter in tears and she did nothing to deserve being made to feel like that. I hope she feels better now and you too.

Well slithy there are lots of generalisations in your posts about what I have said! I wasn't commenting on what OP said I was commenting specifically about people thinking that seats on the back of the bus are free seats that older people can move to.
Everything else you have have said are things you have read into my post and not related to what I said.

And Sillybilly, I presume rtft means read the full thread? Well if you had rtfp ( read the full post ) you would have seen that I was clear at the start that I was specifically talking about comments bu posters that there were other free seats. I was responding to that rather than op's post. That was why I didn't feel the need to read the whole thread.

"And Sillybilly, I presume rtft means read the full thread? Well if you had rtfp ( read the full post ) you would have seen that I was clear at the start that I was specifically talking about comments bu posters that there were other free seats. I was responding to that rather than op's post. That was why I didn't feel the need to read the whole thread."

That's exactly why i said RTFT! What you were posting about had all been covered in the thread.

This is why I do not use public transport. When I've had to take the Park & Ride I always sit at the front of the bus. I had no idea the entire front section is supposed to be left for old people. I get severe claustrophobia and panic attacks if I can't get to the door on a bus/train/boat, so there is no way I would go to the back.

My 24 yo DS always got up and offered his seat on public transport as soon as someone more in need got on, but now he has a number of health issues that mean he can't stand. He has been tutted for being in the priority seat. He always says that even feeling like death he would get up if he was asked nicely, but people start tutting and he digs his heels in. As he also has ADHD it would be very interesting if an OAP hit him.

So Sillybilly only people who have time to read hundreds of posts are allowed to post without risking a nippy comment from you? That is an awful lot of people excluded from a lot of threads.

Well whats the point in posting something that was already covered waaay back? you dont have to read the full thread if you dont want but if you're going to comment at least check if it's already been said. Otherwise what is the point of posting? I dont get it.

I am a huge beliver of manners and etiquette. In pretty much every way that old man is not only in breach of them he is past the line of belligerence and abusive behavior. Giving up your seat is a courtesy not a legal requirement. This teenage girl should be allowed and indeed encouraged to excercise her own discretion. Which she did here, people should be raised to be kind and considerate to others out of respect and affection for their fellow human beings not out of fear of some passive aggressive tutting or physical abuse for not knowing their place.

Once the tutting started all manners and etiquette went out of the window in the scenario. Pointing what you believe are other peoples bad manners is the height of bad manners. These tutters had appointed themselves jury of this girls behavior, by definition without awareness of the whole situation. If this girl were my daughter even I would have done differently would have praise for excercising judgement and quite frankly for sticking to her guns. More girls need to grow up feeling their judgements and autonomy are sacrosanct particularly when others disagree.

What that old duffer did is act like a thug, thanks to being egged on by the rest of the tutting that he was Mr Moral High Ground. By all means step in if a law is in breach, or someone is going about there lawful business are being treated with abuse, but not on a point of etiquette. Totally disproportionate. Back up this young woman should she wish to pursue it with the police. The most important thing to preserve is her valid sense of self.

Sorry the second paragraph should if I would have done differently.

nosleep you gave the impression you were referring only to the OP since you hadn't rtft