Stranger "hits" DD - am I over-reacting?

[rosabud]

My DD is 17. Today she was on the bus on the way home from school (6th form so not in uniform). It was crowded and old people were tutting at her and making it obvious she should give up her seat for them (there were free seats towards the back of the bus - not sure that is relevant). Nomally she would have given up her seat but she was tired, had been in an AS exam which had gone horribly wrong and her back was hurting. Personally, I think she should still have given up her seat.......but don't think that's an excuse for what happened next.

A seat behind her became vacant and, as an old man (in his 70s, she thinks) sat down in it, he hit/slapped her across the shoulder ('quite' hard - but not hard enough to cause injury) and told her that she should give up her seat for an old man next time. DD apologised and tried to explain about the exam and her back - but he did not answer her. Old people continued to tut at her and she sat there and cried!

She should have given up her seat, I think. But I am really angry that a man thinks he had the right to hit/slap her! Would he have done that to an older person like myself? Would he have done that to a teenage boy - I don't think so, surely he would have been too wary of being punched back?!

I am so cross! How dare he?! Am I over-reacting?

Actually vintage if you could get in touch with other women who worked with you, you may well be able to take a case against the hospital trust who didn't protect you from this.

When I hear stories like this, I am reminded once again of how important it is, that people understand why feminism is needed. This was habitual behaviour in hospitals by men wasn't it, and in the media it was portrayed as a bit of fun. Carry on Doctor.

I think the many posters saying she should give up her seat is indicative of how we treat our young people as if they are somehow second class citizens.
I work with young people and possess a few of my own and I see this a lot.
The chances are if they had asked her nicely she might have moved but the minute the tutting and nonsense started she would have just felt defensive.
At the swimming pool yesterday there were a few young lads swearing a lot. I had my 3 yr old with me so I just said "boys. Can you tone the bad language down a but and pinged at my toddler" they were really sweet and apologised and then did stop. If I'd have shouted "shut up you horrible kids" I may have received a mouthful.
Teenagers are citizens of this world and not necessarily inferior to the rest of the human race, why should they automatically give up their seat on a bus just because someone is older than them?

his was habitual behaviour in hospitals by men wasn't it, and in the media it was portrayed as a bit of fun. Carry on Doctor.

we talk about the new effects porn has had on teenagers, but we can see that sort of thing started way before. "sexy nurse" has been around for ages and yes, it meant actual real female nurses were ripe for the harassment

Depends ledker I think generally speaking more teenagers than older people are better able to stand. SO I do expect those who are able to do so to give up their seat and to do so without asking. Because inevitably there will be some nice older person who feels uncomfortable asking and will just stand their and risk falling a breaking a hip.

I feel the same about pregnant women, if I see someone obviously pregnant it is entirely possible she doesn't need my seat but as there is a possibility that not having my seat means she will feel faint and injure herself and her baby... I just give up my seat. Yes, she could ask for it but many people don't because they get rude replys.

Anyway all that is kind of irrelevant to the OP because even if the Op's daughter had told the old man to fuck off he would have had no right to touch her. So the posters above being shitty about her not giving up her seat have spectacularly missed the point

Would he have slapped a 17 yr old boy? I doubt it.

I think it is a gender issue.

OP, I think you are right.

vintage I am so so sorry that happened to you. That's vile.

I do expect teenagers without disabilities/chronic illnesses to give up their seats to older people. It actually tends to be adult women who actually do give up their seats, from observation.

It is not about treating others as second class citizens, it is about recognising in general, that older people find it harder to stand on a moving bus. And I find older people who can stand fine, generally say no to my offer of a seat.

People tut and make faces not because they are being aggressive, but because they feel powerless to actually say anything to an individual. The horror stories about someone being stabbed because they asked someone not to do something on public transport, make many peopel too afraid to ask anyone on public transport to do or not do something.

I don't think some on here understand the levels of fear many older people have of teenagers. And it is totally whipped up by the media.

this thread is not about seat and who has priority or not. it's about an older man assaulting a young girl/woman because he thinks he has the right to do so and because he (probaby) has got away with it before.

If I am completely honest, ime anyone talking about whether or not this girl should have given their seat up is missing the point.

There is never an excuse for anyone to hit anyone.

The whole "I don't think some on here understand the levels of fear many older people have of teenagers. And it is totally whipped up by the media." thing is a total red herring. Either a) the older people on the bus were terrified or b) they weren't terrified at all, but felt able to tut away and one of them was so very not terrified that he struck OP's daughter.

Of course the man was in the wrong and obviously not scared.

But many peopel on here do not seem to understand the dynamic of tutting and making faces, saying they only respond to someones unhappiness at something, if they ask them directly.

Yeah the man was obviously terrified of the girl.. It shows in him spanking her

The bus/standing/old man thing is all a red herring.

This thread is good illustration of people being so threatened by the idea of a young girl having a right to her own physical integrity that they will perform the most ridiculous rhetorical cartwheels to find a way to blame her for being assaulted.

There's one feminist writer who says that there is nothing the world hates more than a teenage girl. When I read threads like this I think she's right.

Would the bus company have some record of the scum's name/address that they could give to the police? Does it register that from the bus pass?
Either way, assaults need reported.
Physical violence is never ok. Never.

But many peopel on here do not seem to understand the dynamic of tutting and making faces, saying they only respond to someones unhappiness at something, if they ask them directly.

I think you're wrong about that. I think people do understand what tutting is about, I suspect they might even tut themselves on occasion. What I think people were trying to do was move the debate away from red herring accusations about ageism to what the crux of the matter really was in this instance, which was a man's belief in his inalienable right to put his hands on a girl/woman. I think the most consternation was expressed toward those people who constantly ignored this and tried to divert the attention of the thread on to the girl's perceived 'bad behaviour'.

This ties in the another thread about the 'not all men' phenomenon. A generalisation was made about older men being grumpy (or somesuch, I am paraphrasing) and immediately a group of victim blamers women leapt into the fray with a NOT ALL OLDER MEN while making their own sweeping generalisations about all teenagers are X, all older people are afraid.

The point, and the only salient point here is that a man felt justified in putting his hands on a girl in a public place and that NO ONE commented on it, or made any move to help her.

When I was 7 and a half months pregnant I was in a crowded tube, and no one stood up to offer me their seat. I was standing next to a priority seat in which a famous actor was sitting, he looked at me, clocked the baby bump and then closed his eyes for the remainder of the journey. Would it have been ok for me to have punched him in the face?

Inquiring minds want to know eeaster. Which famous actor? and why didn't you pose for a pic with Sad Face to sell to the DM

I agree with all your points OP. A similar 'insignificant' situation happened to me as a teen, I was on a train and the conductor came along and told me to get my feet off the opposite seat, which, yes, I shouldn't have been doing (like your daughter 'should' have moved seats. Which, by the way, I disagree with as there were seats available). However, he then walked straight past the bunch of older men who also had their feet on the seats, and were shouting and swearing.

So this middle aged man obviously felt brave enough to confront a single teenage girl, but was too scared to do the same to a group of drunken men, who were actually causing a disturbance. Its symptomatic of the things Vintage describes, where it's acceptable to treat young women as lesser beings.

I'm very sorry for what you went through, Vintage, by the way. It's horrible that it has obviously stuck with you for so long.

Really I can't say, as MN Towers would have a fit at another libel suit. All I will say is that his name rhymes with Cimon Sallow. And The Fail, how very dare you. bugger if only I'd thought of sadface pic, bloody pregnancy brain

However I didn't twat him one, despite his lack if consideration, because violence is not acceptable however entitled you may be feeling. Not if you're upduffed, not if you're a pensioner, and no, nit if you're a man and the person you're feeling entitled towards is a woman. Not even then.

WHile violence is never OK, it is acceptable for heavily pregnant women to sit on anyone who refuses to give them a seat. There's a law probably

Who was the famous actor?

Oh, Jimon Fallow.

Rick Noss did the same (almost) to me. He was on the train going into Belfast and in a lovely seat whereas I was standing at nine months. He glanced at me but looked away pretty sharpish. My opinion of him plummeted after that. Gave me nightmares and I didn't sleep well. :(

This is one of the most depressing threads on MN. I think I just found out what victim blaming is.

A man who lives near me is in his seventies. He's attacked a lot of girls on buses, physically and sometimes sexually. He really enjoys it. He's been in prison for it. He gets on buses and tries to find a reason or a way of getting aggressive physical contact with girls. His favourite time of day is school travelling home time. I saw him a few months ago, in a bus station in a city where he is not 'known' (although he is banned from all transport premises in the region) getting off one bus full of school kids and getting on another, pushing at girls and grinning away). I went and reported him straight away. The man in the office at the bus station was not surprised. They have a list of men who are banned for their multiple assaults on women. It is a common problem.

So yes, report it. They can look at the CCTV and the bus company may well already know who he is.

Do people on this thread think that being a man who attacks is women is some kind of job you retire from when you hit seventy?

The old man got away with the amount of violence that he could get away with.