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Original poster

Stranger "hits" DD - am I over-reacting?

279 replies

rosabud · 14/05/2014 23:17

My DD is 17. Today she was on the bus on the way home from school (6th form so not in uniform). It was crowded and old people were tutting at her and making it obvious she should give up her seat for them (there were free seats towards the back of the bus - not sure that is relevant). Nomally she would have given up her seat but she was tired, had been in an AS exam which had gone horribly wrong and her back was hurting. Personally, I think she should still have given up her seat.......but don't think that's an excuse for what happened next.

A seat behind her became vacant and, as an old man (in his 70s, she thinks) sat down in it, he hit/slapped her across the shoulder ('quite' hard - but not hard enough to cause injury) and told her that she should give up her seat for an old man next time. DD apologised and tried to explain about the exam and her back - but he did not answer her. Old people continued to tut at her and she sat there and cried!

She should have given up her seat, I think. But I am really angry that a man thinks he had the right to hit/slap her! Would he have done that to an older person like myself? Would he have done that to a teenage boy - I don't think so, surely he would have been too wary of being punched back?!

I am so cross! How dare he?! Am I over-reacting?

OP posts:
vettles · 15/05/2014 09:50

Two separate issues here.

If she was sat in the priority seating, she should have moved, even if there were free seats in the back.

He shouldn't have hit her. Although he may have been tapping her on the shoulder to get her attention, I'm sure he could have done it more lightly.

Enjoyingmycoffee1981 · 15/05/2014 09:50

Op, I would be furious if I were you.
But as time passed, I would begin to see that my dd was tired, emotional and stressed, could it be that she is exaggerating? Not intentionally, but because she was in a state, she was very sensitive and a tap on the shoulder became a proper 'hit'.
As you say, she should have given up her seat. Tired and poor exam result is no excuse. For her own mother to say she should have given up her seat despite complaining of a bad back, you must know that the bad back is a bit of a red herring.

Uptheairymountain · 15/05/2014 09:53

The man's age is immaterial.

The problem is *"a man thinks he had the right to hit/slap her" He didn't.

Nevertheless, he is being excused on grounds of age, both his age and the OP's daughter's age. That has nothing to do with his attitude that he has the right to hit someone.

SpeedwellBlue · 15/05/2014 09:55

I think your dd was wrong not to move as if an elderly person falls over on the bus they are at far more risk than a 17 year old. On the other hand there was no excuse for the person hitting her. That was very wrong.

Hoppinggreen · 15/05/2014 09:57

So lets just take the whole seat scenario out of it - what if he had hit her while she was waiting for the bus?
Hitting anyone regardless of your gender, their gender, your age their age etc etc etc is totally unacceptable unless in self defence.
One thing I would say us that although the man shouldn't have touched her at all it s just possible that a tap on the shoulder could become being hit to an already upset and emotional teenager .

SpeedwellBlue · 15/05/2014 10:00

From what you say he hit her rather than "hit" her as in your title.

Morgause · 15/05/2014 10:02

If they can walk to the bus stop they can walk to the back of the bus for a seat.

What a remarkably stupid thing to say. Walking to the bus you have wobble room and can used a walking aid. Very different on a crowded moving bus.

No excuse for violence, though.

NickiFury · 15/05/2014 10:02

Why does everyone assume that because the word "elderly" has been used that he could be lame, in poor health, not as steady etc? I know plenty of able bodied elderly people. He was certainly fit enough to start throwing slaps about wasn't he?

On MN "elderly" equals frail, wobbly, lame, ill, unsteady and excused from adhering to the rules of society i.e not being violent towards children and teenagers.

Now that's what I would call ageism.

NickiFury · 15/05/2014 10:12

Another thing. My ds has hypermobility, it's 7/9 on the Beighton scale (high), he also has dyspraxia but he looks absolutely fine. He always has a seat on buses because he can't stand safely. Would it have been ok for this man to hit my ds because he didn't move? Would it be understandable that he might react that way?

OrangeMochaFrappucino · 15/05/2014 10:29

Does nobody remember being horribly socially awkward and uncertain as a teenager? I was painfully shy and unclear on etiquette and was terrified of talking to adults even to do something polite like offer up a seat. I can imagine in the DD's situation being frozen to the seat with mortification and not knowing whether to offer a seat (in case of offending someone who looks older/pregnant when they aren't, for example).

I remember as a younger teen - maybe 13 or 14 - trying to make way for other people on a crowded bus (I was standing and thought they were coming up the aisle behind me). I was wearing a bulky anorak and unwittingly brushed against an elderly lady who was also standing. She thought I was trying to push my way to the front to be first off and hissed 'Pushy!' at me, really venemously. Obviously, the sensible thing to do would be to apologise and explain but I just didn't have to confidence and I just stared dumbly at her, unable to think what to do and burning with embarrassment. She in turn, interpreted this as further rudeness and began berating my friends telling them that I needed to learn some manners. I will never forget the searing humiliation, confusion and shame I felt. She probably thought she was teaching a rude and selfish teenager a lesson.

I feel really sorry for the 17yo, who at this age is still learning how to navigate adult social situations. There is no excuse for anyone to speak or behave aggressively towards her - he could have spoken politely to her, as he no doubt would have done had she not been a young woman.

I also quite recently had my toddler sitting next to me taking up a seat and as I was chatting to him, totally failed to notice a man with crutches getting on the bus. He had to ask me to move my son, who promptly had a screaming tantrum. In my head, I imagined a bus full of disapproving Mumsnetters judging the selfish woman who didn't offer her toddler's seat to a disabled man and was,clearly teaching said toddler to be as rude and entitled as herself. I was so embarrassed that he'd had to ask, instead of me offering, and by my son's reaction to being moved onto my lap that I got us off the bus at the next stop and we walked. Obviously, I still get flustered in some situations! So please don't always assume that people are being selfish and rude - sometimes they are just not aware of the circumstances/etiquette and it's much more helpful to politely talk to them.

I'd be reporting to the bus company though, definitely. He has no right to hit people and shouldn't get away with it.

MyMannateeBringsTheBoystotheYa · 15/05/2014 10:45

Yes, it would have been nice if she had given up her seat. but she didn't owe anyone her seat unless she was in the disabled section (and even then violence is NOT acceptable). He clearly wasn't that fucking frail, was he? Nasty piece of work.

I know you said you would not call the police, but personally I would reconsider that. the bus will have CCTV and it's entirely likely that your dd will have him on her bus again.

MyMannateeBringsTheBoystotheYa · 15/05/2014 10:49

those who think he "tapped" her... would you touch someone while having a go at them? Why would you think that was appropriate?

Ludways · 15/05/2014 10:51

But morgause, he didn't have a walking aid.

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 15/05/2014 10:51

I really do NOT understand why so many people seem so hell-bent on finding ways to minimise what this man did.

'Oh she must have been exaggerating'
'She should have moved'
'All the tutting means she was definitely in the wrong'
'A bad exam is no excuse'
'Maybe he just tapped her shoulder to get her attention'

Nb - I have paraphrased these.

I wonder if the people saying these things would be as blase if it was their child who had been assaulted?

There is NO justification for violence.

BrianTheMole · 15/05/2014 10:55

Maybe she should have given up the seat, maybe not, depends where she was sitting. But regardless of that he had absolutely no right to touch her at all.

Morgause · 15/05/2014 10:56

You said "they", Ludways, I presumed you meant the elderly as a group.

Hoppinggreen · 15/05/2014 11:09

I suggested it might have been a tap rather than a hit but I also said that this was wrong too.

SolidGoldBrass · 15/05/2014 11:39

It occurs to me that some of the tutting might have been at the man for hitting the girl - but a tired, stressed teenager who's just been hit is likely to feel that everyone is condemning her. Because, well, if you're female and someone hits you, the general cultural message IS that you are the one in the wrong.
There are generally three or four priority seats on a bus. I wonder who was sitting in the others and why this unpleasant man didn't choose to pick on one of them?

sisterofmercy · 15/05/2014 11:59

Personally I think it should be reported to the police and the CCTV examined. He shouldn't be allowed to assault people for whatever reason.

Vintagecakeisstillnice · 15/05/2014 13:19

Some scary posts above.

Assault is assault is assault.

Doesn't matter age etc, it was assault, and yes I do think it wouldn't have happened to a boy.

HandragsNGladbags · 15/05/2014 13:34

Bet the frail elderly yet still strong and agile enough to give someone a whack old gent wouldn't have whacked a 6ft plus teenage boy would he?

And why would that be - because he was being a bully. If he thinks hitting people is an acceptable response to him not getting his own way, then that shows a rather nasty insight into his private life and character imo.

The victim blaming on this thread is incredible. I'm not sure whether to be Shock or just plain Sad

SageBush · 15/05/2014 13:47

I can't believe the minimising of an assault that is happening on this thread.

OP, if you're still there, I DO think you should report this to the Police. It is NEVER OK to hit another human being, and your daughter needs to know that she shouldn't have to stand for that happening to her (regardless of where she was sitting on the bus, and the man's health/ frailty).

Quangle · 15/05/2014 13:51

My interpretation would entirely depend on the nature of the hit/slap which I'm finding it hard to imagine. 70 year old men don't usually actively hit unknown 17 year olds in public. Not to say that it didn't happen but if it happened just like that then it's assault. But if it was a nudge / prod to get her attention and done in a bad tempered fashion it's not a nice thing to do but I'd put it down to everyone having a bad day.

I feel for your DD - it's horrid and she'd obviously had a horrible day and this was the last thing she needed. But I'd be reluctant to turn it into a "she's been a victim of an assault" thing unless this is absolutely what happened in which case you should report it. And I agree with solidgold - the tutting could have been for her not at her iyswim. Has she re-enacted the contact for you?

I agree with jellystrawberries - she's navigating a mean world and sometimes horrible people are horrible to you and you are on the back foot because of distraction, tiredness, whatever - without it necessarily being an assault situation. If it was an assault, get it reported, but if it was just a bad tempered, badly handled exchange on his part then I would just leave it and focus on helping her get over the exam trauma.

Charlieandlotta · 15/05/2014 14:07

when you get unanimous opinion against you, it is usually because your behaviour is unreasonable.

Katie, What utter nonsense. Ever heard of pack mentality?

The man was of course wrong. If people went around hitting other people everytime they felt entitled or slighted, it would be a fun way to live wouldn't it?

She was hit because she was a young girl and the guy was pretty sure he would get away with it. The other elderly passengers tutted because they felt empowered being part of a tuttering group.

I was once hit on the back by a bloke in a theatre because I was whispering with my boyfriend before the show started. I was completely distraught as it was such a shock an a nasty thing to do. He could have asked me to be quite. We left the show as I was so upset.

The only good outcome of this op is that this may be a lesson for your dd to:

  • be vigilant when out and about and be aware of of who is sitting / walking behind her. Most people are nice but there are dangerous and aggressive people out there and learning to keep herself safe is a life skill.
  • do a self-defence course for girls which will also help her to carry herself in a more assertive way.

The guy who hit her is a nasty old man. I'm very sorry she had to experience this. Please take steps so that she can keep herself safe in the future!

FrigginRexManningDay · 15/05/2014 14:35

Absolutely report this to the police. Regardless of his age or her age or seating he had no right to put his hands on her. No right whatsoever.

I see victim blaming and ageism alive and well on this thread. Immediately assuming the teen is wrong and that old equals frail. Both very wrong assumptions. He picked on this teen because he was a bully and she looked vulnerable.