Stranger "hits" DD - am I over-reacting?

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My DD is 17. Today she was on the bus on the way home from school (6th form so not in uniform). It was crowded and old people were tutting at her and making it obvious she should give up her seat for them (there were free seats towards the back of the bus - not sure that is relevant). Nomally she would have given up her seat but she was tired, had been in an AS exam which had gone horribly wrong and her back was hurting. Personally, I think she should still have given up her seat.......but don't think that's an excuse for what happened next.

A seat behind her became vacant and, as an old man (in his 70s, she thinks) sat down in it, he hit/slapped her across the shoulder ('quite' hard - but not hard enough to cause injury) and told her that she should give up her seat for an old man next time. DD apologised and tried to explain about the exam and her back - but he did not answer her. Old people continued to tut at her and she sat there and cried!

She should have given up her seat, I think. But I am really angry that a man thinks he had the right to hit/slap her! Would he have done that to an older person like myself? Would he have done that to a teenage boy - I don't think so, surely he would have been too wary of being punched back?!

I am so cross! How dare he?! Am I over-reacting?

I have arthritis in both knees I have had it since I was 13 years old. There are days when I can't walk without the aid of a cane and have to sit downstairs on the bus, although I try not to sit in the priority seats if I can help it. If I am sitting down you can't tell there is anything wrong with me and most people don't see the cane. I have lost count of the amount of times I have been told off and shouted at by older people who want my seat because there couldn't possibly be anything wrong with me because I am young. My point is that a lot of people have a hidden disability and we shouldn't judge who gets to sit were solely on the basis of age.
If the people on the bus wanted the OP's DD to move they should have asked her politely to do so and accepted the explanation they gave.
It was in no way acceptable for the man to hit her and I would definitely report it.

Snatch, yes I did say that. It does not make his reaction right. But I have felt angry at watching people behaving incredibly selfishly in public situations.

And if the situation is exactly as described, then all the old people tutting on the bus is an extreme reaction. So something very obviously wrong was happening.

Why are we allowed to talk about some children being horrible spoiled brats and everyone piles in with tales of their own and discusses how they would deal with such children, yet elderly people, who often behave equally badly because they're old and entitled (yes they do!) must never be spoken of negatively? Where is the word for slagging off kids and teenagers, can we use "ageism" for that too?

Dragon - I agree, of course young people can have hidden disabilities. But no I don't think this girls explanation of a bad back and being tired are acceptable reasons not to move to a different seat.

IME on buses, when you have lots of people tutting, shaking their heads, etc, it is because of a totally obvious and shocking situation where the individual concerned obviously does not care, and asking them would make no difference. So people express their disapproval.

I get buses very regularly that are full of elderly people. I can only remember twice when lots of people were tutting and expressing disapproval. It is a very very unusual situation and both times it was because of an incredible display of selfishness.

Yes you can get one out of order arssy old person. But that is not the situation here. Here all the older people on the bus were expressing their disapproval at the OP's daughter.

Nicki - i don't think MNers have any problems talking about old people behaving badly. In fact I see the exact opposite here.

"a totally obvious and shocking situation "

But in the case of dragongirlx, the obvious interpretation would have been wrong.

Out of interest those of you focussing on the teenage dd's bad behaviour would you have done so if a none elderly adult male had hit her for not moving when someone elderly got on?

I'm utterly bewildered by this. What a horrible thing to happen. No excuses for the old man but I wonder if she had been asked to stand and didn't hear and the others thought she was ignoring the request.

It's the response from the other passengers I find hard to understand, continued disapproval even though a young woman was crying.

The old man could have dementia, or just be horrible but surely someone else felt some sympathy.

Of course some old people act badly. The man in the OP acted badly. And should be called on it. The OP should ask to see the CCTV.

But on Mumsnet all old people are bags, twats, witches............The assumption is that an old person is automatically in the wrong. Nobody appear to be questioning the "all the old people on the bus were tutting at her" story, which is a little bit hard to believe, because it is old people we are talking about.

And the man in question hit DD without asking for an explanation and refused to listen to her explanation when she tried to give it.

We will all come out differently on the side of whether "teenager with bad back not in priority seat" vs "elderly man" should move to the back of the bus. I don't think it's obvious, it's on a scale. Obvious is keeping your bag or your feet on a priority seat and swearing at someone who politely asks you to move them. What were your obvious ones?

Morgause, my disabled sister has been on a packed bus with a group of teenagers calling her a "freak" until she cried, and nobody did anything. People can be pretty spineless, and/or not want to get involved.

This is beyond mad...

Anyone in a seat who sees anyone in greater need should give it up out of manners and kindness.

No one should hit anyone.

Some people, white/black/ginger/old/young/mutton are horrid. Most aren't.

Really, what are people arguing about?

So of all the people sitting on the bus, this 17 year old girl, who was tired, upset and in pain, was supposedly the selfish one for not giving up her seat. When there were empty seats anyway. When no one else stood up.

But yeah, she must have been rude and obviously deserved to be hit. It doesn't matter how many times some posters say they aren't excusing this, they really, really are defending the assault.

Her behaviour (and there was nothing wrong with it anyway) is irrelevant. The man's behaviour is the problem.

On MN all old people are presumed to be in the wrong.

martorana I have found exactly the reverse on this thread, with the teenager dd immediately piled in on for not moving rather than the focus being on her being assaulted.

I think she was very rude to sit in front of a bus and expect a old person yo go to the back of the bus, she may have had a bad back but imagine how a old person feels. They are often too lame to go to the back and would be afraid of falling. You need to teach her manners, but that man was in the wrong and had no right to hit her.

And yet again the first thing that's focused on is the teenage dd's behaviour rather than the violent behaviour of the man who hit her.

Talk about "ageism", you are infantilising that man by not focussing on his shocking and disgusting behaviour first. Is he a child that excuses that must be made excuses for?

I don't think we should be even talking about the so called "reason" as to why this bloke hit someone else. To do so implies that there could be a situation in which the victim deserves to be hit and that will never be the case unless they lashed out first.

I haven't read the whole thread, so I do hope this rather obvious point has been made much much sooner on here.

"why didn't she speak out against being hit? Why just continue sitting there snivelling crying"

She did. Just a pity he didnt think to engage his mouth instead of his hands in his non existent attempt to find out why she didnt stand, despite never being asked.

As for this "she cried for ages and nobody helped so she must be in the wrong". A man had just hit her and then sat down right behind her, i dont know about anyone else but i'd suspect a temper and be wary of inflaming the situation. No-one knew whether he'd turn on them if they intervened. Also, has nobody ever heard of the bystander effect? People have died in very public streets due to this- but they must have been in the wrong too

Old people are lame? Snort.

No excuse for slapping her, and actually I think if they had asked her to move to the back, she probably would have done. I'm afraid I ignore passive agressive bullshit like tutting and rubbing of pregnant bellies. If I'm not in a priority seat, I don't fricking move unless someone asks me to or if I'm concerned someone is in actual discomfort standing up. And if some miserable old fucker hit me on a bus, I would have his picture on my phone and be asking him for his name so I could report him to the police.

And can we just get one thing straight here;

OLD DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY MEAN FRAIL OR LAME OR IN PAIN OR INCAPABLE OR IN GREATER NEED.

My 85 year old grandmother would be mortally offended that anyone assumed she was any of those things due to her age and she would be just as happy standing on the bus talking to the 17 year old who was sitting and would probably even notice the girl wasnt ok.

And

BEING YOUNG DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY MEAN FIT AND HEALTHY AND IN NO NEED OF A SEAT!

You cannot always tell by looking so if you feel able to offer a seat then offer it, if you feel you need a seat then ask for it. Hitting and tutting shouldnt even come in to it.

He's lucky he didn't do it to me, MummytoMog, I might have fucking slapped him one back.

If they can walk to the bus stop they can walk to the back of the bus for a seat. He was in the wrong, plain and simple.

I'd be inclined to get on the same bus at the same time and date to ask this idiot if he was ok with hitting females?

I reiterate my point that many of the young people I work with would probably of hit him back!

Old people think they can get away with anything but they risk picking on the wrong person one day.

I am happy to focus on his behaviour. I have. I think the OP should ask to see the CCTV footage. To see whether the is enough evidence to take it further.

I am not happy to focus on his age. Which is irrelevant.

"Old people think they can get away with anything but they risk picking on the wrong person one day."

I rest my case.