Why would you be proud to be married?

[Grennie]

I am just trying to understand this from a feminist perspective. Why would a woman under patriarchy be proud to be married?

In Germany it seems to have gone from using people's first names when young (

Autumn, I think "mistress" is too loaded a term to catch on... But I agree we need a generic "adult woman" term such as Frau. Perhaps MN can invent one

One you understand that the whole institution of marriage was invented to benefit men at the expense of women, it becomes easier to see through the pro-marriage propaganda. Basically marriage was designed to entitle every man to own the domestic, sexual and reproductive services of at least one women.

Though plenty of contemporary marriages are happy partnerships of equals, blah blah, ery nice if that's what you want, surveys still show that the order of happiness goes: Happiest, married men, next happiest, single women, next happiest, single men, unhappiest married women.

THe endless, relentless propaganda to the effect that all women long for, need and dream of marriage is designed to stop women refusing to be owned by a man on the grounds that they'd prefer to determine their own lives. To an extent, the current emphasis on pursuing, maintaining and 'working at' heteromonogamous relationships is a way of wasting women's time (and keeping them too preoccupied to start a revolution or anything).

Too right, SGB.

There should be no need to invent a new one. They are all abbreviations of Mistress. We (society at large) just need to pick one. At one time Mrs. was used for both married and unmarried adults.

I use Ms. because at present that is the one which does not reveal marital status. It is also easier because I am in the US where it is essentially the default, especially in professional settings.

Also, the name/title issue is important. While other aspects of a woman becoming a man's property through marriage may have diminished or disappeared, the patriarchal expectation that she will take his name is alive and well.

SGB - We can find stats to support anything:

www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/marriage/why-married-women-are-happier-than-single-women/

SGB - I totally agree. If you really have to work at a relationship, beyond dealing with ordinary conflicts, etc, you shouldn't be in it. And I say that as someone who has been in a relationship for 22 years. A relationship should make your life easier and more fun.

plinky - Virtually all surveys show married women are lest happy than single women. Single women who choose to be single are the happiest group of women.

I'm proud of my husband (I the same way that I'm proud of my parents, he is a nice bloke), I am proud that we have been able to stand up in public and make a commitment and mean it.

I am neither here nor there about the title, its just a fact for me. I am married, so my title is Mrs.

Being proud of my marriage to me just means that I am proud of the choices that were made, and the things that we have achieved together, not least the kids. I am not proud of it as an estate.

BTW I am far happier now than I ever was when I was single. That's partly because I have someone to support me. Being married makes that position legally binding.

Mummy - Individuals can be happier. But statistically, married women are less happy than unmarried women. That is the opposite from the ideas fed to us in the media. They all suggest single women are lonely and unhappy and married women are much happier.

Grennie. I do not agree that nearly all surveys show that married women are less happy than single women. I thought it was the other way around and I am pretty sure that married people live longer.

Not really sure what that's got to do with feminism though

There is absolutely nothing wrong in choosing to not get married or to stay single but to say getting married is not compatible with feminism is wrong.

You and I are both in long term happy relationships - the fact that I am married and you are not means NOTHING. It doesn't matter one jot.

Women can be in bad relationships regardless of whether or not they are married.

Grennie You keep making sweeping statements that have no basis.

I don't know what media you have seen but I am not aware of things in the media that say single women are unhappy and lonely. This view also contradicts your earlier post that stated:

Virtually all surveys show married women are lest happy than single women. Single women who choose to be single are the happiest group of women.

Presumably these surveys were in the media .

I am confused.

I am proud to be in a civil partnership and I will be similarly proud to be married when the law becomes official in the summer.

It does feel like an achievement, like becoming a parent is too, but maybe I am only proud of it because it was previously unattainable for me, iyswim.

When we marry, we will walk down the aisle together again as equals. I don't feel that I am buying into this patriarchal system by getting married as there are no historical expectations on us or 'boxes' for us to fit into as we are equals from the beginning.

I'm a Ms. I am not allowed to use Mrs. When I am married, I will still be a Ms as I hate the fact that women have different titles if they are married or single. Even though, I am proud of being married.

Todger I didn't realise you can't use Mrs Could you just use it anyway?

Congrats anyhow

Just wanted to add that if women were so happy in marriages, they probably would not initiate around 70% of divorces in this country. Apparently, among university educated couples in the US, the percentage is closer to 90%.

Even if your own subjective experience of marriage is a positive one, there is no denying that for a lot of women it is a bit of a shit deal.

Plinkyplonks, the website you linked to with research showing how happy married women are is a business website run by a 'dating coach', whose target audience are college educated women in their 30s. May I suggest that it is in his best interest, and in the interest of his bank account, to convince his target market that marriage is bliss? A very good example of heteromonogamous propaganda SGB wrote about, particularly in the light of a spectacularly high divorce initiation rate by that particular demographic.

I'm not "proud to be married". But I am proud of my marriage. Dh and I both come from extremely dysfunctional back grounds with our parents having very unhealthy relationships.

I am proud we've worked through everything and worked hard through deaths and moving countries and negotiating foreign languages and infertility and then 2 children in quick succession (and a third pregnancy now).

Why aren't you "allowed" to use Mrs? Says who? You can use any title you want.

Of course you can use Mrs, I do and can't abide Ms.
I have been a single parent and, regardless of any statistics, I am much happier being married.
I can't see why women need to make themselves into victims. For a start you do not need to get married, ever. If you do then arrange it the way that you want to run it.
People are so literal as if a tradition of 'giving away' means anything. I had lived on my own for years before my wedding and so could hardly be 'given away' but I would have loved my father to be alive to have had that special father/daughter moment. He was a huge gap at my wedding.
You can make speeches at your wedding if you want to , who on earth would stop you? . Since a present survey says that most people fear public speaking more than death I can only conclude that most people wouldn't choose to!
You can have a wedding without any special clothes, meals, guests,etc. you can even have a wedding with your own words.You do not have o be 'given away', you can make a speech. It is up to you.
You can make sure that your marriage, far more important than your wedding, is conducted the way that you want. Discuss is all beforehand and stick to it. Don't marry someone who can't cook, clean bathrooms etc. live with them first and find out.
I can't see that the fact that you married is anything to be proud of, but I am proud that we have been very happily married for 25 yrs and hope to carry on for another 25 yrs.

There is this weird culture on here where by if someone says 'I use this because it is correct' everyone immediately says 'Oh then you MUST be saying that everything else in the world is INCORRECT'

No, if I wanted to say everything else in the world was incorrect, thats what I would say.

I am a Mrs, I am a Mrs because I am married, therefore it is the correct terminology for me to use (on forms and such like) when I got married I became a Mrs.

No, the reason are picking you up on it is that you say it is the correct terminology to use. Not a correct terminology to use. There is a difference.

I'm proud I have a relationship with a person who is not 'family' that has survived the ups and downs of 27 years. Relationships and harmony are important to me.

I'm proud of our communication skills and enduring love and affection for each other.
I hold my dp in high regard, and he loves and respects me too. We are very different people, from different cultures, so it's been a challenge and sometimes we've had a steep learning curve, and I'm glad we've both decided to invest the time and work together, while respecting the differences we have.
It's been a very enlightening and learning experience for me, and him.

I'm proud we have worked at our relationship- the fact that we've also signed a document to say legally we are married is not very important imvho.

I'm taken seriously on my own merits at work, not because i have 'snagged' a dh, I use my maiden name as my degrees, professional qualifications and memberships etc are all in that name, and I never changed it.
Our dcs have both our names.

I'm not proud to be married; in fact, at the time I married, I was almost immune to the notion of the patriarchy because life was nice, I was working in a job where I had equal rights and equal pay, and I had an extraordinary amount of freedom. I realised marriage meant legal protection and also cemented a commitment and I was happy for both of those (although the commitment was already there tbh).

Fast forward fifteen years and you can bet the scales fell from my eyes pretty much the moment I got pregnant; since then I've learned a lot that I didn't learn when younger because I was unchallenged. I would actually prefer not to be married (but still to be committed to the same person).

I had a friend many years ago whose life goal was to get married: seriously, it was the culmination of her dreams to have found a lovely man and done the whole wedding thing. Very depressing to hear an independent woman say that she supposed all women would see their wedding day as the best of their lives, a proud achievement etc. I do not understand.