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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Why would you be proud to be married?

261 replies

Grennie · 03/11/2013 18:06

I am just trying to understand this from a feminist perspective. Why would a woman under patriarchy be proud to be married?

OP posts:
SirChenjin · 03/11/2013 19:05

Why don't you just ask the person who said they were 'proud to be married'? Easier and more accurate than speculating I would have thought. The message poster button is on the right hand side of the post in question.

Original poster
Grennie · 03/11/2013 19:06

Sir, a number of women said it, and I am trying to understand it from a feminist perspective. Hence I posted it here.

OP posts:
SirChenjin · 03/11/2013 19:07

Why don't you ask them then?

Rentahoose · 03/11/2013 19:07

I worked in a customer care call centre once. Got a complaint from someone who had been addressed as Ms and not Mrs on an envelope.

"I'm not a Ms she said I'm married and very proud of it"

I thought it strange that she got so offended.

I'm proud of not being married though so I suppose I shouldn't be surprise of people being the other way round.

MiniTheMinx · 03/11/2013 19:11

Marriage is common in the respect that historically and globally most women have married and yet it is still seen as aspirational, I wonder why?

JimbosJetSet · 03/11/2013 19:11

My husband is proud to call me his wife, he tells me every day. I also feel proud to call him my husband. But that is different to 'being proud to be married,' it sounds as though you value the piece of paper that says you are married over the actual person that is now your spouse...

Original poster
Grennie · 03/11/2013 19:13

Jimbo - Why are you proud to call him your Husband?

OP posts:
Original poster
Grennie · 03/11/2013 19:14

Yes Mini, Marriage is sold as an aspiration to girls and women. Look at all the stuff we get sold to us about our wedding day being the best day of our life.

OP posts:
MiniTheMinx · 03/11/2013 19:27

I could say I'm proud of my children, they are a work in progress though and I may revise my opinion. Also, it implies that they are a project or product of my making, which to some extent they are, but are they not their own project, is it not ultimately down to them to realise their own potential.

I might be proud of my partner when he is given a promotion, but is it not his work that led to this. It isn't anything within my control. I might be proud that he is better looking than most and proud to be seen with him or feel pride that he chose me (or I him) but is that really an achievement or just good luck?

So I wonder what pride is, is pride something we have in ourselves, in others or in institutions that convey social prestige? isn't it really about social standing and social power. We feel that marriage gives us a better social standing with our peers maybe? and that kind of flies in the face of trying to achieve equality and emancipation for all.

SunshineSuperNova · 03/11/2013 19:28

Mini, I don't see marriage as signing away my rights as an individual entity.

lighthousesea · 03/11/2013 19:30

I'm not proud if being 'married'. I am however proud to be married to a wonderful man who I know is proud to call me his wife.

SirChenjin · 03/11/2013 19:31

Grennie - you don't really want to know, do you? You want to sneer at, patronise and diminish any woman you feel is 'under the patriarchy' and who, for whatever reason, is proud to be married.

perplexedpirate · 03/11/2013 19:32

Not quite the same thing, but I've never understood why your family, and particularly your father, is supposed to be proud of you on your wedding day.
I've done loads of things to be proud of: getting married was awesome, but not one of them.

SunshineSuperNova · 03/11/2013 19:33

Wow SirChenjin, that's a bit OTT.

Bythebeach · 03/11/2013 19:34

I want to echo Jimbo.......proud to be married to MY man not proud just to be married...
And OP I don't feel I don't deserve love and commitment.....more proud that someone thoughtful, intelligent and wonderful loves and is commited to me. I know he feels the same....in fact now I sound nauseatingly smug!!! Urgh! But it's a resounding endorsement of oneself if someone you think so highly of thinks the same of you......reading the forums on here does make me grateful but I don't feel undeserving.
And thinking further I think marriage is just a shorthand and explicit public declaration for 'love, commitment, trust, respect' and if I had that explicitly without the marriage (but with explicit agreement to always work on the relationship if things felt less good) but with all the legal stuff (turning off my ventilator, inheriting my stuff rather than my parents/kods) then it would be much the same....

PacificDogwood · 03/11/2013 19:35

Well, our wedding day was lovely (much nicer than I had feared, having dreaded the whole being-the-centre-of-attention-first-dance-oh-isn't-her-makeup-dreadful) and I suppose I am proud of the fact that we have stuck with each other through ups and downs and in spite of the fact that we are very different personalities.

I am not specifically 'proud' of my status as a 'married woman'. I never felt I signed any rights away, on the contrary, my rights as an individual, part of a partnership and as the mother of our children is more protected than if we were not married. I am not defending that odd fact, I am just stating it.

I have an unmarried aunt who is very proud of never having married Grin.

Housesellerihope · 03/11/2013 19:37

I'm married and very happily so but it's certainly not something I'm proud of. In fact I would have to say I'm slightly ashamed to be married when marriage equality for gay and lesbian partners doesn't exist around the world.

Geckos48 · 03/11/2013 19:37

I'm proud because my mental health problems made it very unlikely for me to find and stay in a committed relationship and I have managed to do that.

I am proud of myself for being married for 3 and a half years and together with my husband for 8 years.

MiniTheMinx · 03/11/2013 19:38

SirChenjin, that is a bit unfair. Marriage is absolutely something that feminists need to be talking about.

As things are we have a patriarchal, capitalist system that subsumes and repackages cultural messages, selling ideas back to us, shaping human behaviours and aspirations. Marriage benefits patriarchy and capital in many ways and helps to glue society together in ways that create and recreate the conditions of inequality for women. From unpaid labour, reproduction of labour power/the species to all the bloody expense of getting married. On top of that you have the legal system and the institutions of religion that help to enshrine marriage as necessary in terms of legal/property rights and social status.

JoinYourPlayfellows · 03/11/2013 19:38

"Why would a woman under patriarchy be proud to be married?"

Because getting married is the highest achievement a woman can aspire to.

She has somehow convinced a man to validate her socially.

I'm not proud to be married, but I do prefer my husband to be called my husband and not my partner.

I have a lot of partners of various kinds (business, collaborative) and only one husband.

I can't really see why a nurse would refuse to use the world husband if asked. It seems very churlish and rude.

MistAllChuckingFrighty · 03/11/2013 19:39

I am proud of my achievements

That is what being "proud" means to me. Looking around the FWR and relationships boards it seems that if you have a husband or a marriage to be proud of it is more a matter of luck than a personal achievement.

I guess it's where the term "smug married" comes from. There comes across a certain amount of judgement from those who picked well towards those who picked less well. I don't think it comes from a kind, sisterly or pleasant place, tbh.

SirChenjin · 03/11/2013 19:40

Do you think that was OTT?

Instead of asking the few people on another thread who stated that they feel proud to be married (although let's face it, it's not really anyone else's business, is it?), the OP starts a thread entitled "why would anyone" - roughly translated as 'why on earth would anyone', goes on to relate marriage as 'living under the patriarchy', and then asserts that marriage is sold as an aspiration to girls and women.

Sweeping generalisations made by someone who really doesn't want to recognise or acknowledge that another woman may feel differently to her, but instead chooses to demean them for feeling 'proud'.

BelaLugosisShed · 03/11/2013 19:41

I feel proud to have been married for almost 30 years, proud because my husband is a wonderful man and a fabulous father, he's proud to have me as his wife - what in the world could be wrong with that?
Proud because we've achieved a wonderful life together, despite being mere teenagers when we got together.
Same as I'm proud he's been to war and served his country.

Original poster
Grennie · 03/11/2013 19:41

To me proud means being pleased of an achievement. Is that how others are using it here?

OP posts:
HRHLadyG · 03/11/2013 19:42

Grennie: Perhaps your lack of understanding is more about how you have interpreted the sentiment expressed as 'proud'. What do you believe it to mean?