Why would you be proud to be married?

[Grennie]

I am just trying to understand this from a feminist perspective. Why would a woman under patriarchy be proud to be married?

You would think that a husband was the enemy rather than the person you love and want to spend the rest of your life with! Have the wedding that you choose, have the marriage that you want. You are not a victim!

Annie - Yeah, it's easy enough to change things when I fill in forms and stuff. I just feel that if I started saying to family "Actually it's Ms Pancakes" on Christmas cards and that, I'd start a whole rumour of imminent divorce that I just can't be bothered dealing with.

Surely though, while it's quite reasonable to be proud of certain aspects of your own personal marriage, it's quite bizarre to be proud of being married in general. Because it means nothing in and of itself except that you have gone through a legal/religious ceremony. Any idiot can (and do) do the same thing.

Interesting, Annie.

I started using Ms as a teenager because it struck me as ridiculous and unfair that women had different titles to tell everyone whether or not they were married.

So I've been Ms since before I really had any right to an "adult" title. I can't remember exactly how old I was, but probably about 13, maybe as old as 15.

And that decision, once made, was for keeps.

Penguins - ah, families and cards, eh! . My aunts and uncles still send cards to Mr and Mrs DH'sname Lobeseder. Every Christmas I seethe, but there's no point making a fuss. So it's just the bills that come to Ms Lobeseder.

I shall be interested to see what they do when I become Dr Annie Oldname-Lobeseder next year.

I'm not proud to be married per se.. I am proud that we, despite the odd argument, present a united and loving front to our dc. That we both carry out domestic duties, and also have equal amounts of time for fun. It makes me cross, that on the odd form, DH is automatically head of household. All of this could be the case of course, if we weren't married.

(and do)? (and does)?

Neither seems right...

I don't care much what title I use or what other people address me as - of course there is not 'correct' one, just the one one might prefer to use.
I, personally, don't particularly like 'Mrs' because that makes me MrsPacificDogwood who is my Mil iykwim and 'forces' the use of DH's name. I don't really like 'Ms' although I approve of it more, but hate the fact that you have to make use of a clumsy new construction if you want to avoid the patriarchal "Mrs". I never used 'Miss', well, as a child, but not recently.
I have an academic title which I use most. With my 'own' name - nothing 'maiden' about it .

Wrt to double-barrelledness: I paid good money to have a double-barralled name in my passport to allow for travel with my children on my own without being challenged on the grounds that my name was differnt from theirs.

Whatever each of us chose to do, takes nothing away from the fact that these are ancient and misogynistic structures which set it all up.

Annie, their heads will explode.

My family is vair confused on proper etiquette on envelopes...

I am not "proud" of being married as in having the status of a married woman.

I am proud of getting though a traumatic divorce. I am proud of developing enough sense afterwards not to get into a similar mess again. I am proud of having a good marriage. Of course, partially it was luck, but I also definitely worked and continue working at it (and this is not to say that women should always "work at it". I obviously should not have in my first marriage). I am proud of a family that I am raising with my husband. I see it as a kind of work and as an achievement.

I use Ms as my title and never Mrs. I dislike Mrs for two reasons: There is no equivalent married marker for men, and I am just not into titles as they needlessly categorise people into different groups and hierarchies.

I am also a Dr and I almost never use this title outside work. I am not really "proud" to be a Dr either. I can be proud of my work, but not of the status.

AnnieLobeseder maybe in your definition.. but I think the majority of couples get to define their marriage as they see fit. The act of buying a car, house etc maybe legally easy. However, its the personal context, what buying a car etc signifies to you that matters and defines whether you see it as an achievement or not. It's relatively easy to get legally married. That doesn't mean that marriage has no value or is not something to be proud of for some people.

I am Mrs but I really couldn't give two hoots what people write on envelopes, it isn't important to me.

I'm sorry, Annie, I don't agree. I am proud of my marriage, but I am also proud that I chose to marry DH, that between us we have worked hard and we are still married, that overall it was the right thing fir me and DH to do.... In short, I am proud of being married.

Penguin - they probably tut and roll their eyes when they get cards from me addressed to Mr X and Mrs Y Bloggs instead of the "correct" Mr and Mrs X Bloggs. But for me, even calling the woman Mrs is a concession as I am very opposed to what the title means for women. But , it would be rude to call them anything else as that is the title they have chosen.

Nope, sorry, I still don't see why having the same status as anyone who can pay £150 (or whatever is costs) and walk into a registry office is anything to be proud of.

I see the legal value of marriage, particularly for the (usually) more financially vulnerable woman.

But surely it's the relationship you're proud of, not the rubber stamp making it legal?

I accept I am illogical in that I chose to be Mrs Germs but cannot abide being Mrs Germs.

I know technically I am using a construct to denote a divorced woman by insisting on being Mrs Germs, and also that changing my name and using my husband's surname is submitting to the patriarchy. But I am at least able to make the choice myself, and most people respect my wishes except one not-so-elderly aunt grrrrrr

I wish we could just have either "Miss" or "Mrs" for all women. You know, like "Mr". I use Ms, but I hate the way it is hard to say.
I was in Homebase once, ordering some paint, and the kid behind the counter asked " is that Miss or Mrs" and I said "It's Ms" and he said "oh. Does that mean you are divorced?" and I said "no, it just means it's not relevant if I am married or not. Like "Mr".
He looked amazed!
But I hate the raised eyebrows that go with "Ms" because it is a definite choice to use it. "Oooh, 30-odd and not found a man yet!"
When actually, it's just that Mrs IfNot is my step mum, and Miss IfNot is a little girl.
In France they everyone is Madame, married or not, after a particular age, but I hate that too, because of the heart-sink the first time someone uses it to you!
And I don't really get the point about being left at home when DP goes out because someone has to babysit..? Single people need babysitters too! We just find them, because we have no other option.

I'm proud of the relationship I gave with my husband. I'm also proud that we have formalised our relationship through the process called "marriage".

Similarly, I'm proud to have children, and I'm proud to be a parent.

I agree Annie. I thought for a few days about getting married. Did it (eloped) in haste, repented at leisure. Big whoop. Any fool can get married, including me.

AnnieLobeseder - it's both - I proud that my relationship with my partner was solid, happy and consistent enough to make a legal, spiritual commitment to him for the rest of my life. I am proud of the marriage we have now which has built on those foundations.

I can't make someone see what they don't want to see. If you don't see value in it or wouldn't be proud in my situation that's fine and I respect that. That doesn't however mean that I am not allowed or entitled to feel proud of my marriage. I don't allow other people to define how i should feel about things things I value.

"I use Ms, but I hate the way it is hard to say."

Do you say "miz"?

I just pronounce it Mis, so it's kind of indistinguishable from Miss, but I HATE Miz, it sounds so... so undefined. Like a women who won't be a Mrs doesn't even deserve a proper sound :o

Simarlarly, any idiot can become a parent. I would be proud to be a good parent, and I would wait until my dc are old enough to judge that tbh.

"it sounds so... so undefined. Like a women who won't be a Mrs doesn't even deserve a proper sound "
Totally!
I think I say.."Muz" or something like that..!?
There is no vowel!

Not quite any idiot can become a parent (though plenty do ). I am particularly proud of being an adoptive parent. I'm not saying I'm necessarily a great parent, or that being an adoptive parent is "better" or something to be more proud of than a birth parent (and in fact I'm both), any more than in saying that I am proud of being married I think myself "better" than people who are not married. But why wouldn't you be proud of being a parent (unless you have completely fucked it up)?

I wish all women could be "Mistress" (not "missis"!). I am rather fed up with saying "No, it's "Mis" - M-S!" It sounds like an STD.