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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

So many evil men...can't stand it

999 replies

SplitHeadGirl · 01/11/2013 20:21

First of all, I know fully well that men will get upset at what I think and am about to say, so I would like to clarify that I am talking about EVIL men, not the good, wonderful dads and granddads and husbands and nice single blokes out there....the ones who I KNOW (my brain, not my gut, tells me so) are in a majority, but who seem to be few (is it their deafening silence?)

But any fool can see that the sheer amount of men, who are prepared to do unspeakable things to women and girls (and boys as well as other men, not to mention the vulnerable and the elderly...wow, the list goes on) is just overwhelming. I read today about Anene Booysen, and I was absolutely heartbroken, but yet not shocked. For men to be so diabolical to women is not shocking anymore, and that is men's greatest tragedy.

I have two little daughters, and a little son, and I fear for them at the hands of men. Not women...just men.

I feel like I am thinking out loud with this post, so no worries if no one feels they can respond. I just wish I didn't feel so helpless at the tsunami of male violence.

OP posts:
Giyadas · 02/11/2013 01:11

Naicar, all it would take is a shake of the head and a "not cool". Doesn't have to be a huge confrontation.

AnnieLobeseder · 02/11/2013 01:14

Gender polarisation has a lot to answer for. The way boys and girls, men and women are being pushed ever further apart, and made to view each other as the enemy. It starts with boys and girls having to line up separately at school, the insidious gendering of toys, such distinct lines of "For Men", "For Women", his and hers, Mars and Venus.

Armies have used the concept for years - it's called "othering". If you get your soldiers to see the enemy as "other", as something less than human, you can get them to kill those enemies and commit all kinds of atrocities they would never consider doing to someone "like them".

The media "others" women. They make us less than human, something that men will subsequently treat in a way they would never do if they saw us as the same as them.

This is why I fight gender stereotypes so fiercely. This is why I support the Let Toys be Toys campaign and any other campaign that promotes us all just being people together. I believe that the battle is mostly won the day we are no longer "other" to men.

naicar · 02/11/2013 01:16

Men though have more of an influence on each other so one man calling out another on their behaviour is far more effective.

Sometimes, but more often than not one man calling out another is just a recipe for a punch-up.

AnnieLobeseder · 02/11/2013 01:19

naicar - you're possibly winning the case for the prosecution if you believe that men standing up for decent behaviour can only expect to receive violence...... from men!

CaughtCatNapping · 02/11/2013 01:20

If rape victims were believed more and rapists not believed as much - then a 5yr to life imprisonment might deter them.

GoshAnneGorilla · 02/11/2013 01:20

10 Things Men Can Do to Stop Rape:

lookingglasstheatre.org/trust/10_Things_You_Do_to_Stop_Rape.pdf

Treen44444 · 02/11/2013 01:23

Caught, I think what you mean is better and fairer process. I think if you bring belief in to it, more or less, then that's trouble.
A better process and harsher punishment is something to get behind

CaughtCatNapping · 02/11/2013 01:24

I think that's a great link Gosh, thank you for sharing that.

Treen44444 · 02/11/2013 01:27

Surely, gosh, 1st thing is not rape. It would stop rape (depending on your definition)

CaughtCatNapping · 02/11/2013 01:28

Oh, sorry Treen44444. Crossposted there. Just to explain, I'm with the We Believe You Campaign launched by MN. I think it's been great at stopping the rape myths that float around, even on MN.

Treen44444 · 02/11/2013 01:34

Sorry, caught, I thought you meant bringing belief, as a predetermined objective, in to legal cases. I get what you mean about getting a society's belief altered though. Having a different starting point for assessment of a case.

Maybe belief in cases would be good, we could put religion on trial

naicar · 02/11/2013 01:35

My point is strangers calling out other strangers won't necessarily solve anything and can just cause trouble that could be otherwise avoided.

And that could be applied to both genders.

naicar · 02/11/2013 01:36

From Gosh's link "10 things WOMEN can do to prevent men's violence against women"

Wait, isn't that victim blaming?

AnnieLobeseder · 02/11/2013 01:37

Why does it have to be strangers, naicar? Friends can call out friends. I do it all the time.

AnnieLobeseder · 02/11/2013 01:39

And GoshAnne's link isn't about victim blaming, because it's giving examples of ways both men and women can try to modify men's behaviour, not ways women can modify their own behaviour to avoid being attacked (or "asking for it").

CaughtCatNapping · 02/11/2013 01:44

I don't think MN WBY is referring to religious beliefs in any way Treen44444. More that women are afraid to report rape because of a fear of not being believed, or of being blamed for their own attack. I think if rape victims think they will report into a system that instantly takes them seriously, and that they have a good chance of a conviction, they would be more likely to report.

Treen44444 · 02/11/2013 01:49

Caught , I know. I was referring to my misunderstanding of your post. About believing people more or less. How belief isn't especially helpful in the court room.

I was musing on belief in the court room, if you had a cecular jury maybe you could convict religion. It was a joke (kind of) on my misinterpretation.

SideshoBob · 02/11/2013 01:55

I can't help reading through this thread that you've all been caught out by a wind up, who's done this as some sort of parody on extreme feminism, I mean come on:

"Well, my dad has been married to my mum for 51 years and is more devoted every single day, and has been a fantastic provider for mum and his six kids....my husband is the best husband and father anyone could wish for, my male friends are funny and cute and compassionate and active.....mmmnnnnn...just a guess but no i think I'm ok there!!

Maybe, just MAYBE, I am aware of how ROTTEN so many men can be without it being tied into some experience I am supposed to have had"

Then later on

"When you say that humans are decent I DO agree with you....but only the female part! I cannot think (outside of anecdotal evidence) of any good thing a man has done."

So OP has a great dad, friends, and husband.....but apparently she's never actually known any of them to do a good thing. Makes sense....

CaughtCatNapping · 02/11/2013 01:55

Do you mean secular? I don't know why you're talking about religion, and I don't why you're joking about this? I agree with the MN We believe you campaign to dispel rape myths. Whether you believe someone's testimony in the courtroom or not, or whether you buy into rape myths is ultimately important in the courtroom in cases of rape. Because often rapists get off because jurors believe the rape myths.

Dervel · 02/11/2013 01:59

God this thread is depressing! Without wishing to be drawn into the pointless round of man blaming and defensiveness. I as a man feel absolutely zero guilt for the actions of other men. As a member of a society I do feel I am partly responsible for the evils our society tolerates to continue.

I am struck by the sound proposition mentioned up thread of more men getting involved heavily in child rearing. I don't feel it threatens my masculinity, rather reinforces it, and I think it can do anyone the power of good to be responsible and involved in the flourishing of a new life.

It makes me look at the world in a different light, and I wonder if the simple reality of how much goes into each new life makes you realise how valuable people really are. Maybe this is the source of the disparity between violent criminals genders.

Anyway must dash it's 2am and I think my little one needs a bottle.

Treen44444 · 02/11/2013 02:00

Sideshobob, you maybe right. I suppose people don't question if they kind of agree.

Strumpetron · 02/11/2013 02:05

Wow.

Strumpetron · 02/11/2013 02:06

The OP did not say she hates men, she specifically said she lives with one and has a son

That's exactly the same as the 'I'm not racist I have black friends' line.

Treen44444 · 02/11/2013 02:07

Caught, I know you agree with the MN campaign.
I was talking about my misinterpretation of your post. I was musing about a world where you didn't use evidence, you used beliefs. A world where religion could go on trial. Nothing related to rape, solely, related to the justice process.
I did mean secular. Sorry about that.

It sounds like a good campaign. Is it educational or proactive?

scallopsrmissingAnyFucker · 02/11/2013 07:53

"If rapists were because of our culture and society then everyone would be doing it but we aren't." Er No. We all get different messages from society in different quantities. So a man who watches violent porn for example, is likely to have far less empathy for women than those men who don't watch it. Those men taught that boys will not be boys and violence is unacceptable are less likely to violent.

Women receive different messages from men about their role in society. They are taught to be more passive. Violence from women is much less acceptable and not expected as if there is something wrong with women who are violent whereas as men it is more accepted they will be violent when provoked.

"If a man goes up to a stranger in a pub and "stands up" to him because he told a rape joke then he would probably get his teeth knocked out." There. naicar has just accepted men would bound to be violent. It is not feminists who are accepting that this should be the norm.