So many evil men...can't stand it

[SplitHeadGirl]

First of all, I know fully well that men will get upset at what I think and am about to say, so I would like to clarify that I am talking about EVIL men, not the good, wonderful dads and granddads and husbands and nice single blokes out there....the ones who I KNOW (my brain, not my gut, tells me so) are in a majority, but who seem to be few (is it their deafening silence?)

But any fool can see that the sheer amount of men, who are prepared to do unspeakable things to women and girls (and boys as well as other men, not to mention the vulnerable and the elderly...wow, the list goes on) is just overwhelming. I read today about Anene Booysen, and I was absolutely heartbroken, but yet not shocked. For men to be so diabolical to women is not shocking anymore, and that is men's greatest tragedy.

I have two little daughters, and a little son, and I fear for them at the hands of men. Not women...just men.

I feel like I am thinking out loud with this post, so no worries if no one feels they can respond. I just wish I didn't feel so helpless at the tsunami of male violence.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/record-numbers-of-women-held-for-violent-crimes-1882111.html

Women are responsible for committing a lot of violent crimes. The above article shows the arrest figures for 2010. Despite women committing (being arrested for) an increasing number of violent crimes men still commit a whole lot more. Men commit six times more violent crimes than women. So it is true that men are more violent than women, however, we cannot look at males being violent as a whole species, because the majority of men are not violent creatures just lurking for the right opportunity to commit an heinous act.
I also worry that the figures might not be fully representative of female against male crime because of the way society is gendered which means, for example, that men are less likely to report being beaten by a woman. I don't know how less likely they are to report it but I do remember a tv programme a few years back about the lack of domestic violence refuges for men and how the few that do exist are crumbling under pressure. The programme spoke of the men who seek refuge at these establishments are likely to feel embarrassed and have waited even longer than a woman (which is a long time) before seeking help due to feeling embarrassed because they are male.
So we cannot ignore the fact that men commit more violent acts, but we can't ignore the fact that there are a significant number of violent acts commented by women too.

I also think that calling Roxanne(up thread) a handmaiden / MRA is out of order. Name calling is low and childish, especially when it has no basis other than you do not agree with somebody else's point of view.

Women make up 5% of the prison population. A third of women in there are in for shoplifting. Women are not committing a lot of violent crime.

Men are more likely to report DV than women.

Apologies- the above 1 in 6 figures that I talked about related to all crimes (not just violent crimes).

I have found some more info here about violent crimes and the perpetrators / victims:
www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/nov/22/women-criminal-justice-system-statistics-representation

This article also shows that men are twice as likely to be the victim of a violent crime than women. It also shows that women could be committing up to a quarter of all crimes (not violence specific).
Worryingly, it looks like the figures are showing that women are becoming responsible for an increasing number of violent crimes (still less than men, but worrying none the less).
Yes, some men commit violent acts.
Yes, there are some women who commit violent acts too.
Yes, men still outnumber women for committing violent acts.
Yes, both men and women are the victims of violence.
No, we can't tar a whole gender with the same brush.

Women are less likely to be sent to prison for the same offence as what a man would be sent to prison.
There are lots of reasons for this, but consideration for the children has always been a big factor as a lot of women are single mothers. Or at least that was the case when I studied criminology, I'm not sure what the current sentencing figures will show.

Roxane

I disagree with what SplitHeadGirl said to you.

But I also believe that cultural change will prevent some rapes. Not all, and it is quite likely that the man who raped you would have been impervious to it.

But in a case like Ched Evans, it seemed to be a surprise to many many people (perhaps including Ched himself) that what he did was rape. Similarly the songs about "got her wasted, did what I wanted, she never knew" situations. And the Maryville rape case. If the culture of "a drunk girl/woman deserves what she gets" could change, that would reduce rape.

Last summer when ds1 was 17 he was attacked at a bus stop by a 16 year old girl who was with a large gang. He was on his own, and had never seen her before.
He literally didn't see it coming.
She broke his nose, blacked both his eyes and kicked him when he fell to the floor.
Before anyone says anything, it was completely unprovoked and she admitted as much to the police.
He wanted to press charges, but she ended up with a caution.

This probably isn't relevant to this thread, and I apologize. There are more violent men than women. Anyone who denies that is deluding themselves, but I feel this girl was let off lightly due to her gender.

I think Roxanne was treated awfully last night btw.
If you're reading Roxanne, I hope you're ok.

Yes men are likely to be victims of male violence than women in the UK. Which is why I am wondering why they don't seem to want to do anything about it. Women certainly want to stop men being violent to them and are doing things to stop it.

I think enabling women to leave relationships, the police believing them, support networks to help them are all great and incredibly useful. But this is addressing the symptoms of violence, it isn't getting to the root of the problem which is violent men. That is what needs to be addressed ultimately, their behaviour. Boys need to be taught that violence is unacceptable. Violent men need to know that their violent crime (especially against women because violence against women is far more often blamed on the victim) is unacceptable.

This is why we need to Name The Fucking Problem .

The police do let many offenders off with a caution, Bod, and I'm not sure that sex is anything to do with it.

Norudeshit, that's interesting. I understood from Helena Kennedy QC's book that women were more likely to get custodial sentences than men. When did the statistics you know about date from?

It's OP's like this that really put me off this topic. It's posters here who split gender into 2 distinct parts. There are evil PEOPLE and there are good PEOPLE. This isn't about men or women ffs

Women are less likely to be sent to prison for the same offence as what a man would be sent to prison.

No they're not. In fact, Helena Kennedy who has done extensive research into this subject, has found the reverse is true - that women are sentenced more harshly than men for the same crime.

Yes, it is about men and women - it's about gendered crime. Male violence. It's all been said last night on the thread, it needs to be named in order to be tackled.

Of course men can have an influence by calling out other men.

I'm not talking about jumping on violent strangers but about quietly changing the culture that we live in by letting people know that what they think is acceptable simply isn't.

When I was younger racist jokes were completely acceptable. I may have seemed like a killjoy when I told my co-workers why I hated the word "wog". I also thought the man who told me that "Red Indian" was disrespectful but I went away, thought about and saw that he was right.

People change, not immediately, but slowly and privately. That is how culture changes.

Look at how widely people in the UK condemn the racist chants at football matches. When I was young it was seen as just a joke and something black players should just take on the chin.

And yes to up thread comment. Boys and girls are pitted against each other in every sense from a young ages, practically told that they don't want to be anything the other supposedly is. That is the first place where change is needed.

Exactly Kasey. And now one football club (Liverpool?) is taking the same approach to "you play like a girl" type insults and hopefully these will go the way of racist insults over time.

When you say that humans are decent I DO agree with you....but only the female part! I cannot think (outside of anecdotal evidence) of any good thing a man has done

I'm male and I do feel ashamed of my own sex when I read about violence perpetrated by women men against women. OTOH I think statements like the one you just made perhaps explain why a lot of women when asked if they are a feminist they reply "no, because I don't hate men".

As for how we can stop this violence I think Kim hit the nail on the head when he said it's down to education. Admittedly you shouldn't have to educate men to be good but I don't see any other way.

Men are just as violent to other men and they certainly kill a lot more men than women. You don't see many make much noise about that (and that directly involves them either as victims or perpetrators) so why would you expect them to take issue with gendered violence?

"It's OP's like this that really put me off this topic. It's posters here who split gender into 2 distinct parts. There are evil PEOPLE and there are good PEOPLE. This isn't about men or women ffs"

You are inventing a strawman I'm afraid because nobody here has split the genders into 2 different categories where men = bad and women = good. No one.

It is a spectrum. Violence is linked to many factors, a very significant being gender. It is foolish not to recognise that.

What you are doing is presenting the OPs argument as more extreme than it is so that you can dismiss it without actually looking at it.

So why do you think men as a collective are more likely to be violent than women?

Again this whole men are more likely to be victims of violent crime is true in the UK. Not necessarily elsewhere in the world.

They are still victims of men.

Exactly Grennie.

Of course men can have an influence by calling out other men.

I agree that peer pressure from those around the ones who think it's ok to joke about rape etc. would help.
My own experience is though that it's probably rarer than you think for men to make jokes about violence against women. I worked almost exclusively with males for 35 years and it was never part of our culture. I was never part of the macho male drink culture though so perhaps if I had been I would have a different opinion about how common it is.

Inde. You seem like a good sort so I don't want you to think feminists hate men. The OP when she said that was understandably in a state of upset after hearing about the South African girl who was disembowelled by a man to whom she posed no threat and for no other reason than he felt scorned by her rejection.

Maybe the problem with feminists is that they watch the news and take notice. When you see, practically everyday, that a woman or a girl somewhere has been raped or murdered by a man, eventually you want to scream "why?!" That's all the OP is doing.

Again this whole men are more likely to be victims of violent crime is true in the UK. Not necessarily elsewhere in the world.

It's a red herring anyway because it is still men who are mostly the perpetrators.

Yes I know my point being that if men on the whole do not take to streets for violence against them directly why would they respond any differently to gendered violence.