So many evil men...can't stand it

[SplitHeadGirl]

First of all, I know fully well that men will get upset at what I think and am about to say, so I would like to clarify that I am talking about EVIL men, not the good, wonderful dads and granddads and husbands and nice single blokes out there....the ones who I KNOW (my brain, not my gut, tells me so) are in a majority, but who seem to be few (is it their deafening silence?)

But any fool can see that the sheer amount of men, who are prepared to do unspeakable things to women and girls (and boys as well as other men, not to mention the vulnerable and the elderly...wow, the list goes on) is just overwhelming. I read today about Anene Booysen, and I was absolutely heartbroken, but yet not shocked. For men to be so diabolical to women is not shocking anymore, and that is men's greatest tragedy.

I have two little daughters, and a little son, and I fear for them at the hands of men. Not women...just men.

I feel like I am thinking out loud with this post, so no worries if no one feels they can respond. I just wish I didn't feel so helpless at the tsunami of male violence.

I was unusual. I was attacked by a man I hardly knew and who I was not in a relationship with. I called the police, and he was sentenced to prison. But most women I know did not report their attacks to the police.

ThePitofStupid It's an interesting study.

I'd be quite interested if anyone has ever presented scenarios that were rape like "is having sex with someone who's unconcious acceptable?" rather than positioning it as "Have you ever...." to convicted rapists and see if the responses change at all - see if they do recognise it as a crime...unless its themselves who do it.

I'm not sure if that's been done, if its not its something that should be because the ego's a funny thing. "Yeah that's rape but mine wasn't because XYZ" people have an uncanny ability to justify the worst of the worst.

Grennie, only one of the men I mentioned went to the police. This needs to change

And my attack was not sexual at all. He was a violent man with a long history of violence against women.

Sidesho, that study was of college students, not convicted rapists.

Treen44444 Sun 03-Nov-13 00:29:40
Grennie, I'd say 90% of men I know have been sexual assaulted by a woman. Mostly minor cases but sexual assault all the same.

Now that rings true. My youngest brother worked as a bingo caller when he was a student. Most nights he hardly made it out alive. He was black and blue from having his bum pinched, and worse! He'd be covered in lipstick, all against his will. He would have been 30 yrs younger than most of the punters. I picked him up a couple of times. He'd be genuinely terrified, running down the isle to the door, trying to avoid their groping hands. To my shame, back then, I just thought it was funny.

And it asked about what they had done, in the context of being a "sexual experiences" study, rather than anything theoretical about their attitudes in certain scenarios.

Treen, it won't change if the victim thinks the police will do nothing. The police have got much better at dealing with domestic violence. But when I was younger the police would not have been interested unless a woman was very seriously injured.

And for understandable reasons, it often takes a long time before a woman being beat up by her male partner contacts the police. I know Women's Aid have done analysis with hospitals and found that far more women turn up with injuries from male partners that need treatment, than ever contact the police or Women's Aid.

actually i was thinking of a different one. Have booted up computer.

www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/sexist/2009/11/12/rapists-who-dont-think-theyre-rapists/

ahem www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/sexist/2009/11/12/rapists-who-dont-think-theyre-rapists/

Brenslo that is very wrong that that happened to your brother. From what I have observed of how women and men behave in public, I would say it is pretty rare.

What I have observed more is gay men sexually harassing Heterosexual men. And that of course should be taken seriously as well.

ThePitofStupid I realise that, but obviously for my idea you'd want convicted rapists as you'd want people who'd actually committed the crime, then see if they recognised the crime as a rape when it wasn't positioned as them doing the crime.

As that study shows, if people are willing to admit to doing that when its not asked as "have you raped" its either one of two things that they a) don't consider it as rape at all (which seems unlikely to me in the case of someone being unconcious) or b) They don't consider it as rape because they see themselves as a special case, but would think someone else who did the same thing had commited rape.

I get the feeling i'm not explaining this too well, but i'll see.

Grennie Sun 03-Nov-13 00:44:10
Brenslo, I wouldn't tell you about my attack if I knew you face to face. Given your views you would probably not believe me. Most women do not talk about attacks such as sexual assault, domestic violence and the like, usless it is to someone they trust.

Grennie, Of course I'd believe you. I do believe you. If you say you were attacked, then you were attacked. Your word is good enough for me. Why would you lie?

But I do question the fact that you say most women you know have been attacked by men. Unless of course you belong to a support group for the victims of male violence, which would of course explain it. You'd then know a group of women who'd all been attacked.

No I have never belonged to a support group. I have no need to. I don't even tend to mention it. It happened a long time ago, and my attacker was imprisoned for it.

Brenslo - there was a thread on MN recently asking who had been victim to sexual assault, and it made for shocking reading.

I don't live in Dodge City, or a Taliban village, but most of my female friends and family that I know very well, the ones I've discussed this with (it's not generally something you announce), have been abused or sexually attacked by men - mostly people they know and trust. This includes childhood sexual abuse by father/uncle/stepfather (3 separate women, not my family), Marital rape, rape by a partner, sexual assault as a child by a stranger (my mother in the 50's), plus any number of icky situations that women chalk up to "part of life." I have been raped, assaulted and threatened with rape in the street by a group of male strangers.

With regards to Sabrina by the way, my apologies, you're right, I should have read more thoroughly!

It seems the stat stands at 4.5% in the USA, so my point really stands really - granted that 4.5% of men in the US is a huge amount of people, but does still mean that 95% of men don't rape in the US. It's that 4.5% who deserve the derision, and naturally we need to educate EVERYONE to reach that 4.5% because we don't know who they are, no arguments there.

I have known women who appear to be in happy marriages, who only reveal to you as they are getting divorced the violence they experienced in their marriage. Most women do not talk about this stuff openly. But honestly, it is so common.

So my best friend has been raped as a teenager. Attacked on a quiet path walking home by a man trying to sexually assault her - she got away. Been physically attacked by a man who thought she had stolen his taxi. None were reported to the police.

And this is not unusual.

And I don't believe all men behave this way, or that it is inevitable. Otherwise I would be a separatist. I do believe it is possible to make a safer world.

What's the source for the 4.5% figure?

I think the first thing to do towards solving the problem is to separate what is a physical cause (increased testosterone) and what is social (objectification of women, porn, glamorisation of violence) and do our best to combat the latter. Of course these things don't lead most males to violence but violence exists at the very extremes of male culture so it needs to be looked at.

At an early stage I think one of the problems is that boys are not expected to want to know about/watch movies or shows about/have anything to do with girls. DS's favourite TV show has a female protagonist but this is found to be unusual by many people and he wouldn't like to admit it to people outside the family.

Girls liking boys' movies is not viewed in the same way. I'm not saying it's not natural for children to veer towards preferring their own sex. Of course it is. And they can be plenty mean to each other. But it's not right that one gender can grow up without ever really being forced to identify with the other. Girls do not have that luxury because so much of history and mainstream culture is about men. We have to identify with men else we'd intellectually starve.

Obviously that is the very thin end of the wedge but that is where we need to start.

I have 3 sisters, and 2 that I know of have been the victims of DV, including while they were pregnant. I don't know whether my other sister has been physically abused but her H is definitely emotionally abusive. Anecdotal again, but 3/4 of us?

FWIW our father was abusive. Growing up with violence makes it difficult to draw that line in the sand, to recognise the early signs of abuse.

I spent between ages 17 and 22 actively thinking about what I wanted from a relationship before committing to one. I am perfectly content alone so didn't find it a problem not having a relationship until I felt ready and sure I'd found the right one. My DH is nothing but dear. He can be a glum bugger but he has NEVER been abusive nor does he have it in him.

Yes to sexual assault of children- it was very common in the 40s and 50s. Some lovely friends in their late 60s/early 70s were both abused as small children, as were some of their siblings. By men, several of them. They also had good men in their lives. But even good men cannot make up for being raped in the woods on your way to school (my friend's brother, aged 5). Once that has happened, your life changes for ever. Which is why we all need to protect children.

And yes, these recent cases of young girls being raped and left for dead while their attackers are utterly revolting. These "men" should be made an example of. I do not say that lightly.

And Sigmund- "historically", most women worked. Most of the actual work in the world is performed by women. It's often just not acknowledged as work. I had the recent experience of having to defend a woman who is employed by our parish part-time, as a bunch of men sat around saying that she ought to be doing extra unpaid hours on top of her current role to ensure that a vital job was performed. They thought nothing of occupying her time without asking her, and without planning to pay her. I was shocked. Not one of them would have done what they were planning for free. Glad of being able to defend her corner though.

Duchesse, I am so glad you were able to defend her.

I have read lots of accounts from MtoF who said they did not really understand the negative ways women were treated until they transitioned.

Violence, sexual assaullt and rape of women by men is a massive hidden issue. And it is so often denied.

Just to pick up on a point made earlier about women having to stay home, giving up careers and endure the boredom of raising their children due to the prohibitive cost of childcare.
That idea alone negates the fact that lots of women want to stay home and raise their children. I am in no doubt that a lot of men would like to trade places and stay home to raise their children too.
So whilst we do have some women at home when they would rather be working out of the home we also have some men working out of the home when they would rather be home with the children. Lots of men stay home nowadays too, because their partners have more earning capacity.
There was some research done earlier this year that highlighted the very point that feminism has taken away some choices from women rather than doing the opposite. Feminism has instilled the idea that a woman is somehow oppressed if she stays home to raise her children, perhaps giving up a well paid career to do so. It makes no allowance for the fact that many women enjoy staying home and don't want to leave their children for the purposes of going out to work.
I stay home to care for our children and I know for a fact that my husband would happily trade positions and we have discussed it many times, but alas I win because he earns more. If I find work that earns more then we would trade places and I would resent his new position as primary homemaker.
Yes childcare should be cheaper, but let's not assume that every woman wants to utilise childcare.