Sex: My British Job. Channel 4

[YouMakeMeWannaLaLa]

Anybody see this? It was just horrific. I really, really hope it reached the right audience: punters and their defenders. I doubt it, but I hope so

When - this is why the Pro sex industry types clearly say they don't want legalisation, because that would involve the authorities monitoring their business.

They want decriminalisation as they claim the police are inherently abusive and that they are the best people to monitor the industry.

According to them, pimps don't exist and an Ugly Mugs list is all that is needed to keep prostitutes safe.

If you look on SWOP Australia, you can see them declaring that decrim is exactly what they want.

If you want to be really depressed, have a read at what the industry types have to say about prostitution in pregnancy:

www.respectqld.org.au/flyers-and-photos/sex-work-and-pregnancy

Lovely stuff isn't it? Can't have those punters going without can we especially as "Many sex workers find their regular clients like to
see them for their warmth, personality and the
feeling of friendship they have established."

And this is from the people who know how the industry really is.

www.respectqld.org.au/flyers-and-photos/sex-work-and-pregnancy

Cripes that's fucking grim GoshAnne

Jesus wept. Every time you think the world can't get worse you come across something else that illustrates the inhumanity of mankind.

When - well spotted. Funny sort of decriminalisation.

Beach
Post Sat 26-Oct-13 01:39:16-I don’t know if you (a) speed read and miss what I am saying or (b) you are dim or (c) that you deliberately misrepresent what I say for your own purposes. I suspect a combination of (a) and (c). I am not “only interested in a tiny minority of (white) western women for whom other choices are readily available and realistic” It’s the area I know most about.
What I do know of other areas that anti-prostitution activists are active in trying to rescue brown and yellow women from prostitution because obviously those people cannot make up their own brown and yellow minds (irony warning) about whether they would prefer to do prostitution or work at something else and need a white person to save them and shove them into sweat shops to be exploited there(a profoundly racist attitude) .
And yes prostitution is profoundly gendered-(although 40% of prostitutes in London are reckoned to be gay males servicing males). There is very little demand for male escorts from women ( most men who set themselves up on escort sites fail to make a living in the world of straight sex). However some Western female tourists do pick up local men in countries like the Gambia for sex in exchange for money or goods although disguise it as a holiday romance.-so females hiring males for sex while rare is not unknown. The reason is that there is no demand from women for straight male sex-if there were then I am sure there would be plenty of males to serve the market.
And having the fucking gall to make out like you know better than actual real live women what it is like for us to experience penetration we do not want And what qualifies you to speak for the prostitutes and know their experience better than they do? Just because you are a woman and would not choose to do it? Why don’t you ask those-the majority (not the ones in your drop in centre who seem to be the most desperate) but those (the majority) working indoors who find it more problematical than many other jobs?

LaLa (post Sat 26-Oct-13 23:05:59)
Prostitution has been decriminalized in NZ or ten years-that means that prostitution is treated lie any other legal work and subject to the same health and safety laws as any other job.
You try and liken prostitution to handling dangerous pathogens-it’s not. The health of prostitutes in terms of sexually transmitted diseases is actually very good because thy universally use protection in their working life (as is required by the law in NZ)-the general populace is worse as condom use is not universal.
In NZ prostitutes can legally refuse clients they don’t want (although some brothels are worse than others in permitting this-the larger brothels seem to be better). And prostitutes set their own limits-certainly in most licensed premises anal sex is not permitted and prostitutes in their negotiations with clients will make it clear if anal sex is on offer (most don’t do it) and for what fee-and again thy will say their agreement is conditional on the size of the member and is “at their discretion”.
As far as working late at night goes brothels will have CCTV and other workers and managers around which helps ensure safety. Those working on outcalls rely on their agencies to check out a client’s bonafides (if outcall to a house will check electoral roll etc get the woman to call when she is at the place and when the session is finished) they may also employ drivers who act as security. Many outcalls are to hotels where the client’s bonafides can be checked with reception.
While no method is fool proof you are drawing a bizarre picture of what prostitution in a decriminalized environment (ten years old) is like.

Flora
Going through some of your old assertions
Post Wed 16-Oct-13 22:21:17 Do you have stats for any of your latest assertions? How very scientific of you to "suspect"…. well not stats but here are the references about prostitutes being employees private contractors and tax. In Queensland see here for an explanation and for the situation in Victoria see here p 20-21 so you can see the “suspect” has a solid grounding

(post Fri 18-Oct-13 18:37:32) You claim Robert Pickton picked up his victims in a tolerance zone in Vancouver. Now I know a bit about prostitution in Canada and I was unaware that there were any tolerance zones in Vancouver-so I checked with Prof John Lowman (prof at Simon Fraser University in Vancouver and an expert in prostitution and especially in homicides website here and he said that to his knowledge there were not. So I wonder where you got your information from-or was it completely made up?

Bale
For feminist views on prostitution see here
You can learn a lot about the Swedish model, the views of radical and liberal feminists and the legislation surrounding prostitution in this article “ The Ban on purchasing sex in Sweden: the so-called Swedish model” available here written by Bob Wallace, principle policy officer of the Queensland Australia Prostitution licensing Authority (PLA). The PLA is the arms length government organization set up to regulate prostitution in Queensland which operates a strict legalized system
Actually the PLA website is a good source of information on prostitution-not just in Queensland.here. The “in touch” magazine is particularly informative.

So you too changed your name in support of the (anti-porn and prostitution btw) poster AnyFucker, wino?

Why don’t you ask those-the majority (not the ones in your drop in centre who seem to be the most desperate) but those (the majority) working indoors who find it more problematical than many other jobs?

Brilliant Freudian slip in the last half of that sentence.

wino hmm, well I don't know Prof Lowman so I relied on the evidence he gave at the inquiry into the Pickton scandal as reported by a leading newspaper in Canada including direct quotes from his cross-examination:

www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/prostitution-tolerance-zones-reflected-aims-of-law-pickton-inquiry-told/article558781/

I can see this is was also the finding of the official report published by the enquiry which found, based on the submissions of the local police department that they had tolerance zones in the area where the women were picked up by Pickton and that the tolerance zones exposed the women to increased insecurity and vulnerability to violence.

The official report of the inquiry found (p. 96):

"The DTES strolls [which he goes on to find were tolerance zones and described as such by the local police in their submissions to the inquiry] became a space where justice did not prevail, where violence against women was rendered invisible. Men were able to enter the zone, commit violent crimes and not be held accountable."

www.missingwomeninquiry.ca/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Forsaken-Vol-2B-web-RGB.pdf

You're not trying to spread misinformation by any chance wino? Surely not.

wino you are descending into the depths of your fantasies:

"thy universally use protection in their working life"

Are you fucking serious??

A man employed in the industry of licensing prostitutes would not be my first port of call for a neutral perspective on the Swedish model.

wino I am not familiar with the NZ H&S or Employment Law but all I can say is I cannot see any way sexwork could be permitted under the UK HSE.

Condoms do not protect against all infections (i.e. Herpes) and the risk of a hazard, such as a split or loose condom, vaginal/anal trauma, an aggressive or non-compliant customer would be far too high to be permissible.

I do plenty of risk assessments in my job and I promise one to one intimate contact with an unknown person, sharing bodily fluids, potentially rough physical contact, risk of emotional trauma, night work, minimum hygiene/PPE etc. would not be allowed. The high risks (possibly assessed using past studies you, yourself have presented) are too high.

Plus, if you watched the documentary you would see the prostitutes were discussing the high number of men who sneakily remove condoms without the womens' knowledge or consent. How can you protect them.

You are living in cloud cuckoo land if you think that having a driver or calling a friend to tell them their whereabouts will protect you if, for instance, a client is being slightly too vigorous, hurting you, you ask him to be gentler, he ignores you. That's just one scenario discussed by the women on the documentary: those that actually know- I trust them over you.

You are as deluded naive as the people (like my lovely, daft H, who wouldn't dream of buying a woman) who think it's just like Pretty Women and the women don't even kiss the punters! Get real, it's shit, as the documentary this thread is about, showed!

So you too changed your name in support of the (anti-porn and prostitution btw) poster AnyFucker, wino?

Now, that is funny.

Sexist, racist, ageist and disablist (unless it's fetish ).

And some people want it decriminalised i.e. legitimised?

No, ta.

Something wino skimmed over in his post that I think needs to be picked out:

"In NZ prostitutes can legally refuse clients they don’t want (although some brothels are worse than others in permitting this-the larger brothels seem to be better).

Emphasis added.

So, actually in practice, in the sex work wonderland of NZ, there are still women having sex with clients they don't want to, aka being raped, because the brothels don't "permit" them to refuse clients.

If there are women not even allowed to refuse clients, how many women are also not "permitted" to refuse to perform certain sexual acts?

And that's what's happening in the brothels, which are presented as havens of egalitarian sex industry activity.

Care to quantify that "some" wino? So we can know just how many brothels are happy for their employees to be raped?

This is where the "sex work is just work" argument falls down.

If I am in any other service industry, serving a customer I don't want to means giving them food, pouring them a drink, putting through their purchases on the till.

In the sex industry, serving a client I don't want to means I am being raped.