Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Sex: My British Job. Channel 4

759 replies

YouMakeMeWannaLaLa · 23/09/2013 23:23

Anybody see this? It was just horrific. I really, really hope it reached the right audience: punters and their defenders. I doubt it, but I hope so Sad

OP posts:
GoshAnneGorilla · 26/10/2013 21:29

There was (I don't think it's still active thankfully) an Irish "sex worker activist" org set up by a pimp. As part of their activism they ran a poster campaign to advertise what a great job prostitution was.

Can we guess which gender featured in the posters?

www.google.co.uk/search?q=turn+off+the+blue+light&rlz=1C1DSGQ_enGB544GB544&espv=210&es_sm=93&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=rCVsUsSNM6eV0AXeioGoCg&ved=0CDgQsAQ&biw=1366&bih=667#es_sm=93&espv=210&q=turn+off+the+blue+light+posters&tbm=isch

YouMakeMeWannaLaLa · 26/10/2013 23:05

Oh dear goshAnne That's depressing isn't it Sad

bale You said that HSE and Employment law could be brought into prostitution easily (without forcing sex workers to become self-employed, thus exempt) if it was regulated.

I cannot disagree more! If prostitution was legalised and regulated sex workers would be entitled to protection from the HSE and from the Equality Act.

Do you understand risk assessments or hazard awareness involved in HSE? Or equal opportunities? Prostitution, as it is, is not compatible with these at all!

I used to be a microbiologist working with TB cultures...even when the cultures were dead, to handle them I had to be trained in infection control, wearing PPE (head covering, goggles, gloves, shoe-coverings i.e. a helluva lot more than a condom) and follow a strict protocol (i.e. have 2 people working together, signing off on procedures etc.).

A prostitute would be handling potentially lethal, infectious material: hepatitis, HIV, chlamydia etc. In line with HSE she would need to wear goggles, gloves and a disposable covering at least...No union or insurance company would sanction skin to skin (without an intense cleansing routine like HCPs) and certainly not penetration, due to the high risk of infection.

That is before we get started on possible pain (no job under HSE requires an employee to experience pain) and if you've ever had a cock up your arse, even voluntarily, let me tell you, there's at minimum a certain ouchy-twinge.

Or before we cover psychological issues likely to arise from employment. Workplaces dealing with intense workloads and issues often have their own counsellors/occupational therapists (workplaces for example; MH teams, entertainment industry peeps, emergency services etc.). Any professional is able to sign any workers off on MH/stress grounds...In my opinion I reckon many prostitutes would qualify for this after their first client!

As for the Equality Act: brothels would be required to demonstrate that they are actively recruiting and employing people of every gender, religion, race, age and sexual orientation.

Obviously, this could not work.

So to support prostitution as a service industry (boak) that works the government would have to revoke certain employment rights and protection from prostitutes...so regulation is void for actual sex workers.

And as for you saying that punters could join a register etc....get fucking real! As if many men would sign up for that; the ones that would would be 'encouraged' by your legislation to think buying women was legit and fun...the majority would just seek out discreet street experiences safe in the knowledge that they could just claim they thought it was legal.

Criminalise all buyers...fine them and publicise their names, pump loadsa resources into it (big returns...punters have money and are scared to face consequences).

Interested to hear Bale and wino 's thoughts.

OP posts:
Beachcomber · 27/10/2013 00:42

Hear hear, YouMakeMeWannaLaa.

It's all a bit thorny how to make prostitution a "job" and remain within standard employment law.

Actually, scrap that, it's impossible.

mediarek · 27/10/2013 01:51

Criminalising buyers won't have the effect you want. Sweden tried that and they found if a case went to court the sex workers refuse to see themselves as victims and almost always refuse to testify against the client.

www.hivlawcommission.org/resources/report/FinalReport-Risks,Rights&Health-EN.pdf

UN Global Commission of HIV and the Law 2012 (see page 38)

YouMakeMeWannaLaLa · 27/10/2013 01:03

Ok mediarek crack on and give us the solution!

OP posts:
GoshAnneGorilla · 27/10/2013 02:19

I think we've already read and critiqued that report on here or the IM thread already.

mediarek · 27/10/2013 02:25

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

mediarek · 27/10/2013 02:29

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

GoshAnneGorilla · 27/10/2013 02:37

Being anti male entitlement and anti male abuse of women is not being anti sex. Waving the "prude" card at us, to try and shame us is bog standard misogyny.

We've had the "Let the sex-workers speak for themselves" argument before, the problem is it is only the privileged who get to do so and they push the "I'm alright, Jack" line because it is in their own interests to do so.

And what is their solution anyway? Oh that's right, to completely normalise prostitution, erase any harm it causes whatsoever and decriminalise the industry with "self-appointed/internal monitoring", so it operates entirely behind closed doors, making any abuses even harder to identify. Scot-pep's proposals would not help the women featured in the documentary, because Scot-pep and their ilk like to deny these women even exist. Or get the likes of Laura Augustin to claim these women are economic migrants so "have chosen their careers".

Bollocks to that. The people who benefit most from such a stance are pimps and punters, although as we know, the red umbella posse like to claim the former don't exist and the latter are all lovely.

Social Justice is not about listening to the most privileged, it is about listening to those with the least privileged and helping them.

If sex work is so maaaarvellous, why is that it is mainly performed by women with very limited choices? Why aren't more men doing it?

mediarek · 27/10/2013 02:45

About a third of escorts on adultwork are male

GoshAnneGorilla · 27/10/2013 02:46

Proof please.

Also one website =/= prostitution.

mediarek · 27/10/2013 02:48

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

mediarek · 27/10/2013 02:51

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

mediarek · 27/10/2013 02:51

I guess that busts the feminist myth that sex workers are only women.

GoshAnneGorilla · 27/10/2013 02:53

My own bingo card is also looking rather busy

"Sex workers should speak for themselves"

"You are anti-sex"

"Loads of prostitutes are men/ aka what about the menz"

"Sweden won't work, because of this story I googled"

"You shouldn't talk about prostitution".

Nice way of not countering any of my claims, when I've dealt with all yours. Are you going to go crying to your little fwends on twitter now?

GoshAnneGorilla · 27/10/2013 02:54

No, no one said that prostitutes are only women, just that they are mainly women and that it is a hugely gendered activity.

One website does not counter that.

mediarek · 27/10/2013 02:55

Add to those numbers there are 729 couples (a male and a female) who work together as escorts.

"Sex workers should speak for themselves"

I would imagine they certainly don't need/want you to speak on their behalf.

"You shouldn't talk about prostitution".

I never said that.

"You are anti-sex"

You are a feminist, right?

GoshAnneGorilla · 27/10/2013 03:01

No, the sort of "sex-worker" who ponces about on the internet, are almost certainly capable of speaking for themselves, but only themselves, not the industry as a whole.

Tell me exactly how being feminist equates to being opposed to sex? I'm all ears. If sex to you means prostitution and pornography, you have a truly limited and grim perception of sex.

mediarek · 27/10/2013 03:27

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

GoshAnneGorilla · 27/10/2013 03:38

hahahahahahahahahaha!

Is that it?

Is that the best you have?

scallopsrmissingAnyFucker · 27/10/2013 07:11

I don't think maths is mediarek's strong suit either, even if those figures are correct (and just because they are logged on doesn't mean to say they are escorts).

SabrinaMulFUCKERJjones · 27/10/2013 09:17

I wish I had a pound every time that HIV Law Commission report was trotted out on these threads.

It's disturbing, because not only have we shown on previous threads that the report contains factual errors, but also it is taken by some as evidence that the UN supports decriminalisation. It doesn't - the conclusions of this report are at odds with other UN initiatives to combat trafficking:

Survivors have long said that to combat sex trafficking, we must address the demand for commercial sex that fuels it, including through laws that criminalize the purchase of sex. The effectiveness of combating sex trafficking through addressing demand for commercial sex has been affirmed by the UN Trafficking Protocol, the UN Committee on the Elimination of all Forms of Discrimination against Women and the former head of UN Women.

Source: Equality Now

mediarek · 27/10/2013 13:49

@scallopsrmissingAnyFucker, they advertise as escorts and a large number of them have a feedback score. Why would you doubt them?

mediarek · 27/10/2013 13:52

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

WhentheRed · 27/10/2013 15:52

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.