Anyone watching 'The other Boleyn girl'??

[Italiangreyhound]

Seems like a pretty crap time to be a woman (or a girl)!

Anyone know how true it all is??

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Other_Boleyn_Girl_%282008_film%29

That makes sense, chub, thanks.

I also think you can see the Howard chin in some of the purported Anne Boleyn pics.

Did you see the article on the Anne Boleyn portraits in the History magazine a little while ago? Was very interesting.

I read a very detailed one recently, I can't remember if it was that one or a blogpost.

Ooh would be interested to read it if it was a different one.

Loving this thread .

Bookwise, can I recommend The autobiography of Henry VIII and Elizabeth I both by Margaret George.

Has anyone mentioned Henry's sister Mary? Poor girl was married off at 18 to the ailing 52 year old Louis of France.

I missed this recent dramatisation of "The Other Boleyn Girl".

I really enjoyed watching the version starring Natascha McElhone and Jodhi May, from 2003. Chubfuddler, is that the version you referred to as the "BBC version"?

Despite some historical inaccuracies, it opened my eyes to many aspects of life for Tudor women.

That's the one I mean. It may not actually have been made by the beeb, I think it was on bbc a few years ago. Both female leads were brilliant.

Have just ordered the Boleyn king from amazon for my kindle...looks interesting.

Lets not forget Anne was no angel. She was vociferous in her hatred for Katherine and the stepmother from hell to Mary. I doubt if she ever loved Henry (who could) just the possibility of the crown and going one better than sister Mary.
I doubt too that she was besotted by Percy, more besotted by the prospect of becoming a Duchess.
She exiled her sister from court when she became pregnant with Staffords child, Mary had to go cap in hand to Cromwell for help.
Her uncle hated her by the time of her downfall due to her imperiousness and nastiness to him.

And as for Jane Seymour.....

Anne was a pretty ruthless woman. But she probably did love Henry in her way, he was an immensely powerful man, and many women are attracted to powerful men. And he was probably only just beginning to go to seed when she was being courted by him. but Katherine of Aragon definitely had the best years of him, all the years when he was young and handsome and considered the ideal Renaissance prince. he deteriorated quite rapidly when he entered middle age.

I don't think she loved him at all.
I don't think any of his wives did.
Anne was terribly cruel to Catherine and Mary but apparently wrote a conciliatory letter to Mary in her final days before being arrested.
She must have known what Henry was capable of after what he did to Catherine and Mary.
He was a deluded megalomaniac with ultimate power.
Great combination!

Oh, I think Catharine of Aragon did.

Nah.
He and his father treated her like dirt after Arthur died. She had to sell her possessions to pay her servants.
Her father too...he simply abandoned her to Henry VII and his machinations.
In fact, Henry considered marrying Catherine himself after Elizabeth of York died in childbirth.

I think she may have thought Henry was sticking up for her. I can't remember why I think that, mind. But Henry was very much under his father's thumb, so I don't know if she would have realized even if he had been keen to get rid of her.

I think her behaviour only makes sense if you think of her marriage as being modelled on her parents' marriage. They were probably not 'in love' in the modern sense when they got married, but they were an incredibly successful partnership and loved each other in that sense. I think Catherine would have expected it to be like that.

Does anyone have a link to the article on the AB portraits, please?

I think Isabella loved Ferdinand. Him? I'm not so sure about! He certainly made Isabella very unhappy with his adultery.
She was a very intense person and I think Catherine was like her in that sense.
All or nothing.

Exactly.

And I think Catharine would have got the message that this was how marriages were.

I suppose a lot of woman would have done.

FWIW I don't know whether they would have had the idea of adultery being hurtful. Even much more recently I think some men would have been conditioned to think that adultery had nothing to do with their wives and their wives would be irrational to mind.

Yes, isabella was unusual in that she did mind, very much. Her daughter juana was known as juna the mad due to her - in others views - unhealhy obsession with her husband.
Anne bolen wasunusual in thag sense too

I cant type on this tablet!

Just about everyone went cap in hand to Cromwell at some point as far as I can see.

Has anyone else had a delve through all the official correspondence of this time on British-history.ac.uk? Honestly, you should. There are some gems in there. My favourites are the 'dear Cromwell, would you like to marry my daughter? Here's a picture of her. It was done a couple of years ago but if she takes your fancy I can get a more up to date one if you like' one, and Norfolk grumbling that Cromwell has sent him the wrong licence of the execution of Aske (ie 'this is the licence for Lincolnshire not Yorkshire! And make sure you get it right next time and send the one for the country of Yorkshire not the city of York because the castle is outside the city walls'). (I have paraphrased rather than quoted, obv.) (Sorry, I tend to bang on about that one rather a lot.)

LRD, re views of adultery, I think they did have an idea of it being hurtful. The Duchess of Norfolk's letters complaining about the Duke's mistress are full of 'but I'm twenty years younger than him!' 'He married me for love!' 'I've been a good wife, I've given him five children!' She was unusual in that she complained quite so publicly, but I do think there was a feeling that if you did your bit to be a good wife (and were attractive enough for any reaosnable man) you were entitled to expect faithfulness.

I think some of his wives probably did love Henry. Even Katherine Howard saw something in him, I think. I agree with Louise - powerful men....

Wasn't it Hilary Mantel who compared the reality of the money Katharine of Aragon was spending with her 'You've left me penniless!' letters. That sort of letter always seem to be hilariously overstated, when they're compared with the reality of inventories and household accounts etc. I think it's just a standard trope to say 'I haven't got a thing to wear! I've had to sell all my clothes!' when you're asking for money. Mary Howard does something similar when she's trying to get her jointure out of Henry after Fitzroy's death. She did have to sell loads of jewels, but jewels are stored wealth anyway.

catherine of Aragon certainly loved Henry. She wrote to him not long before she died telling him that she longed to see him.

Letters and Papers from the reign of Henry VIII

Go on, you know you want to.

Here's a random despatch from Chapuys:
'The very evening the Concubine was brought to the Tower, when the duke of Richmond went to say Good night to his father, and ask his blessing after the English custom, the King began to weep, saying that he and his sister, meaning the Princess, were greatly bound to God for having escaped the hands of that accursed whore, who had determined to poison them; from which it is clear that the King knew something about it.'

Doesn't it make your hair stand on end??

tunip - I said I thought men would have been conditioned to think it wasn't their wives business. Sorry, I re-read and realized the penultimate sentence isn't clear, but I was thinking of men.

I really don't think it is any different from cognitive dissonance now. 'Oh, my wife shouldn't really mind, women have such low libidos and besides I'm sure she hasn't even noticed. Poor little me.'

I don't think that needs to change how we see other people's normal relationships back then. There were clearly couples who loved each other very much, and men who loved their wives or women who loved their husbands. But I do not think the dynamic of entitled cheating husbands is something that has changed dramatically - what's changed is how much impact said entitled cheating husband (and of course, these days, entitled cheating wife) can have on someone else's life.