Violence Against Women

[EatsBrainsAndLeaves]

Just been reading this blog post which talks about women who Transition as violence against women. I agree with her.

[Warning from MNHQ - this contains graphic images]

dirtywhiteboi67.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/transition-violence-against-women.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed:+TheDirtFromDirt+(The+dirt+from+Dirt)

Nah FU your a big woman now I am sure you will figure it out.

EBAL Thats great fantastic we are all individuals, I very much agree with that. So as an individual some one comes to a women only space as a woman but still with the genitals of a male you would have no isse, becouse they are individuals, they have made a choice about what sex they wish to be.

Leith, if we vwere living without patriarchy. But we are not. Under patriarchy sex i,e. whether you are a man or woman matters very much. That is why I am a feminist.

"Nah FU your a big woman now I am sure you will figure it out."

Erm by 'figure it out' do you mean pull it apart and demolish each of the wrong assumptions and logical errors that it comprises? Because although I am big and clever enough to do it, I don't actually have the time or inclination.

And by pull it apart and demolish, you mean disagree based on a political ideological viewpoint that I do not share. Carry on at your leisure all it proves is that those who are driven by ideology of any type are not worth listening too.

"you mean disagree based on a political ideological viewpoint that I do not share"

No that is not what I mean. I mean point out all your factual inaccuracies, arbitrary assumptions and logical inconsistencies. No ideology necessary.

It's just like watching a load of Christian fundamentalists argue that homosexuality is a disease because the bible says so. Well we know their attempts to convert gay people to the righteous way doesn't work. So has there been any significant success convincing trans people that there is no such thing as feeling that you are a female in a male body and that their problem is really caused by the patriarchy? I say significant because I'm sure the anti gay brigade can perhaps find one supposed success out of a hundred or more.

BTW if such therapy did work then it would be great. Anything that makes these people happy with the body that they have been given would be fantastic.

I agree inde. I'm pretty sure the anti gay lobby bang on about "biology" too. I think they're full of it as well.

It's utterly depressing to read this sort of thread, especially as a feminist.

"It's just like watching a load of Christian fundamentalists argue that homosexuality is a disease because the bible says so. Well we know their attempts to convert gay people to the righteous way doesn't work. So has there been any significant success convincing trans people that there is no such thing as feeling that you are a female in a male body and that their problem is really caused by the patriarchy? I say significant because I'm sure the anti gay brigade can perhaps find one supposed success out of a hundred or more."

You can't actually just shoehorn feminist critiques of transsexuality into 'religion versus gays' like that. It is arguing from an entirely different axis and perspective.

Religious patriarchy has put a lot of constraints on human behaviour claiming 'God's will' is behind their assertions. There is no proof for God and no proof that any person knows what Gods will is, even if God does exist. However it is provable that homosexuality exists( and occurs in other species too).

Feminist critiques of transsexuality occur over the very definition of what a woman is (not whether women exist or not). There is a word for ova producing adults - women. Transactivists want to say that it is not the case, there is actually something to do with a feeling that makes a woman. This is weird because it means that although I menstruate, have given birth and breastfeed - since I have a strong aversion to my gender role - I might actually 'not be a woman'. This is the mindf*ck. This is where it is like speaking to the Flat Earth Society who are in denial of a few basic facts.

Both inde and Nola you are making wild assumptions based on very different situations. It is mischaracterising to compare right-wing extremists and religious fundementalists with people that just want to get a few facts straight.

'You can't actually just shoehorn feminist critiques of transsexuality into 'religion versus gays' like that.'

Yes you can.

No. I'm sorry if you don't like my opinion FoodUnit, but I am certainly not making wild assumptions.

I am reading the posts from the OP and I disagree with her. I'm putting my opinion forward, is that alright by you?

I believe that people can certainly feel that they have been born into the wrong body and feel desparately unhappy and want to make changes that mean that they can live happy fulfilled lives.

There's been a parcity of facts on this thread actually. Pretty much all of the facts have been opinions floating around the internet.

"'You can't actually just shoehorn feminist critiques of transsexuality into 'religion versus gays' like that.'"

"Yes you can."

No you can't, since they don't actually fit .

But as a device to silence critique - insults like this thrown around can get past the majority of people's 'reality-checker' so can often work. Doesn't mean its actually true though.

"No. I'm sorry if you don't like my opinion FoodUnit, but I am certainly not making wild assumptions."

Comparing feminist critique of transsexuality to religious fundementalism and right-wing extremism is chock-full of wrong and insulting wild assumptions.

"I am reading the posts from the OP and I disagree with her. I'm putting my opinion forward, is that alright by you?"

Opinions are good - sweeping mischaracterisations and insults don't sit quite so well.

"I believe that people can certainly feel that they have been born into the wrong body and feel desparately unhappy and want to make changes that mean that they can live happy fulfilled lives."

Yes, but that's not what you said in your post. You said something very strong, dismissive and silencing.

"There's been a parcity of facts on this thread actually. Pretty much all of the facts have been opinions floating around the internet."

No - I've told a few 'facts' one of which is that I am a woman, I've given birth, and all the other reproductive signifiers that define me as a woman. I dispute the assertion that it is a 'feeling' or a 'state of mind' that makes me a woman.

You saying "You can't..." in relation to debate seems far more silencing than anything else really.

It comes to something when the people posting on FWR who I have always considered to be skating pretty close to misogyny are actually the ones sounding vaguely reasonable in comparison to the utter shit stirring posts.

I read those deleted posts Foodunit. I saw what the OP said and believe me they made for grossly offensive reading.

I am a woman and have given birth and have a vagina as well. I am not a transexual. What's your actual point?

"You saying "You can't..." in relation to debate seems far more silencing than anything else really."

Maybe I should have said 'it would be incorrect to'... still means the same thing.

I didn't see the deleted posts myself.

"I am a woman and have given birth and have a vagina as well. I am not a transexual. What's your actual point?"

What makes you not a transsexual?

So you've accused me of insulting, silencing, mischaracterising and being dismissive because I have read the entire thread and can see parallels in the way the OP has "discussed" the topic and the way that religious groups talk about homosexuality and you haven't even seen the whole thread?

Very good/

Because I'm not one. I'm surprised you're finding this hard to grasp.

My point is that the definition of what a woman is, is being eroded (this is getting waaaaaaay of topic since the thread is about FTMs).

If being a woman defined by having a strong feeling that you are a woman. Maybe I am not a woman then, since I don't have a strong feeling I am. It has just been the combination of what I was defined at birth as and actual events concerning my reproductive capability that make me sure I am a woman. But since I don't have this defining strong feeling a woman is supposed to have according to transwomen, maybe I am actually a man.

"you haven't even seen the whole thread?"

Perhaps some more posts have been deleted since I read it, but there were a few that had been taken out on the first page when I first read it.

Foodunit

I can see how your opinions fit in to your view of the world and that's fine but has this viewpoint ever actually helped any trans people?

No apology for all of those baseless accusations you chucked in my direction then?

I'm particularly fucked off with being accused of "silencing". I am very well aware of what you mean by that and I resent it thoroughly.

The argument that you are making is based on your own personal feelings, I am able to open my mind a little bit wider than basing the world around my own experiences.

'But as a device to silence critique - insults like this thrown around can get past the majority of people's 'reality-checker' so can often work.'

Some 'critiques' deserve to be silenced. Sometimes, 'critique' is a euphemism for 'attack'. Using the word 'critique' does not make a persons viewpoint more palatable or correct.