Where did all the Feminists go?

[Portofino]

MN seems to have had a reorganisation of FWR when I was on holiday and me no-likey. Why do we now have a Rad fem section and Feminist light chat. So many of the dynamic, knowledgable and interesting posters have disappeared. I have to say that some of the more radical stuff posted really made me think about my views and re-align them. There doesn't seem to be much of that anymore. I am disappointed to be honest.

I agree seeker - I would probably be considered on MN as a radical feminist who holds some pretty 'out there' views.

In reality I am wishy washy on many things and women who live as radical feminists would roll their eyes at my wishy washyness.

On here am Nutty Extremist Man Hater With An Agenda.

It is sort of funny.

Also as has been said many times on here, the FWR section was fluffy kittens, with regards to how scathing/direct people could be, compared to the majority of feminist spaces on the internet.

Which is odd - I mean when you think how 'robust' most areas of MN are in general.

For me what often got called 'radical feminism' on MN, was just 'feminism'. I think a lot of people don't realise how big on overlap there is between classic liberal and radical feminism.

I think I miss the laughs the most.

There were some fecking hilarious, witty and incisive posts/threads on here sometimes.

There are still some great posters here, and still some interesting threads, but I just feel sad that we have lost something.

"handmaidens claiming to be feminists and the whole equalist nonsense brigad"

As an equalist handmaiden myself I think that's exactly the shit which made FWR so uncomfortable to read and put many women off, who'd otherwise be interested in reading and posting in this section.

I think separating is really good, people who aren't in any group just like looking and don't mind discussing topics can pop in and out without being torn a new one like in the past.
People like previous alienate 'normal' people and reinforce the neg. stereotype of feminism.

It seems that only in FWR does one poster's robust POV constitue bullying. I guess that if you are a Radfem there can NEVER be shades of grey in certain topics. And people don't like that. I found it really useful to listen to what was being said and try to understand the reasoning behind it. It has made me change a lot of my long-held opinions - even if I don't necessarily agree 100%

This thread seems to be in three "parts,"

1. LOTS and LOTS of people posting, we miss the 'radfems', we leaned a lot from them/found them very interesting and we wish they would come back.

1. 'Radfems' posting to point out that there is only so much you can take, that they felt under attack and under supported and it all got relentlessly pointless so they left and won't be coming back.

1. Annoying derailer/attacking type people with nothing to add to the discussion but the type of non-relevant nonsense that caused the trouble in the first place.

I sympathise with the posters who fall into points 1 and 2. It does not seem right to have let those who fall into number 3 triumph. In the past it sounds as though the number 2 lot were so attacked/distracted by the number 3 brigade that they failed to notice the vast majority of the number 1 group. The thing is, most people in groups 1 and 2 could probably have easily identified the number 3s and probably didn't need to see their stupid points answered at all. Therefore those in number 3 could be and should be completely blanked and ignored.

Therefore, all the number 2 people ought not to give in, the long history of the women's rights movement is not about giving in! Let's hope they do come back and post in whatever MN wants to call the board now and that discussion/debate is better for it.

Where did they go MillyR? Because I am unaware of any feminist forum that is remotely like what here used to be. I am genuinely interested.

I'm still one of the equalist nonsense brigade, and I enjoyed the FWR boards for the most part, learned a lot, disagreed with some of the views and sighed at the inflexibility and aggression of a few.
I liked the intellectual debates, and all the referencing to texts that went on, rarely contributed to those but read and lurked and learned.
But there were far too many women who weren't MRAs, or rape apologists or even looking for a fight who got caught by flack or never posted or hid the boards after a flaming, and that was an issue that needed addressing. No solution suits everyone completely, ever.
If there are those that want to find and follow the many erudite and feminist women who used to post here regularly, they could always pm them and ask which sites and locations they are hanging out on now.

you want to know why lots of people avoid this section?

read previous posts on this thread

way to go in supporting each other against oppression, sisters

rad/lib/fun stop categorising each other

it's feminism ffs, not fucking team games

Is this a good poit to mention the Snake in the Midst?

No?

Oh okay then.

There shoudl be space for all and feminism should inform all threads and boards.

I totally agree Complexity. We are all a product of our upbringing and enviroment.

I have discovered that there are three ways to get yourself thoroughly flamed on mumsnet. 1) Disagree with controlled crying 2) Suggest that private education might not be a force for good in society, and 3) express views that distinguish you from a doormat.

It IS a shame if offline in-fighting does prevent posters from coming here anymore. But I think rehashing it all ON HERE does the topic no favours at all. I didn't start this thread with the intention of everyone rocking up to have a pop at certain posters. Maybe I was a bit too naive.

It's said that one person's freedom fighter is another person's terrorist.

Likewise, one person's disagreement is another person's derailing a thread.
One person's liberal feminist is another person's MRA handmaiden.
One person's belief is another person's mad idea.
One person's bullying is another person's standing up for themselves and being forceful.
One person's "fuck off you extremists to a corner over there" is another person's giving radical people a space to express their ideas.
One person's equalist nonsense is another person's desire for a better world.

More anyone?

Yes please to the
I agree with your post TiggyD, but if those points are recognised, it should still be possible to have discussions and ask questions of each other without it always ending in a tirade and a dogfight.
Shouldn't it?
As adults?

I didn't even notice there had been any changes. I don't spend that much time here to have noticed.

Folks, can't we just use the space that's here, not worry about what the "rooms" are called, just stick to the basic site rules and get on with it? I've been on other message boards in the past that focus on totally different topics and you STILL get folks complaining that this clique or other is trying to take over, or trying to push others out, or trolling or whatever. I think it's something inherent in internet discussions - not just an issue here. Similarly, I've seen people bring in arguments that have happened in "real life" or on other sites, and that only serves to confuse and alienate those who haven't been involved (and stir up further upsets for those who are.) Lots and lots of time and energy can be wasted on the tooing and frowing when surely, I'd think most people would prefer to get stuck into conversations.

Unless one is banned, no one is forced to leave here, or stay here. At times I have not felt comfortable with the general course of discussions, so I've voted with my feet (well, my fingers.) It's my humble suggestion that others consider doing the same thing.